12/15/2011

[macsupport] Digest Number 8619

Messages In This Digest (22 Messages)

Messages

1.1.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com   todhop

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:27 am (PST)



Lowering the graphics res below the native resolution of the monitor will generally soften the image and can sometimes create even worse artifacts, or distort the image if you choose and aspect that does not match - a 16x9 res on a 16x10 monitor for instance.

There are others way to increase the size of the interface elements without changing the resolution. This allows you to have your screen real estate AND see the elements you need to see.

View... Show View Options
Preferences... Universal Access, especially the mouse cursor size setting.
Many apps have internal settings. Mail... Preferences... Fonts and Colors for instance. Firefox, Safari, word processors all have zoom controls.

Yeah, it's a bit more work, but the end result is often better, especially if sharpness counts for you, such as in photo editing or gaming.

Cheers,
tod

On Dec 13, 2011, at 8:21 PM, OBrien wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 16:57:18 -0800, Daly Jessup wrote:
> > (And actually, in answering this I did switch to 1980 x 1220 and I
> > think I'll stay here until I get new glasses.)
>
> Ha! This discussion has caused me to switch from 1920x1200 to 1600x1000 on my 24"...never thought about it 'till now. Wow! I can read things so much better.
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> O'Brien ––– –... .-. .. . -.
>
>

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
todhopkins@hillmanncarr.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.2.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:23 am (PST)



I would guess that there will be loss of sharpness when not using a
submultiple of the pixel count in each direction, because the "new" pixels
can't map onto an exact number of native pixels.

If you exactly halve each dimension I'd expect the sharpness (not the
resolution, of course) to be retained, but of course this might be too
drastic a change.

Otto

On 14 December 2011 15:27, Tod Hopkins <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

> Lowering the graphics res below the native resolution of the monitor will
> generally soften the image and can sometimes create even worse artifacts,
> or distort the image if you choose and aspect that does not match - a 16x9
> res on a 16x10 monitor for instance.
>
> There are others way to increase the size of the interface elements
> without changing the resolution. This allows you to have your screen real
> estate AND see the elements you need to see.
>
> View... Show View Options
> Preferences... Universal Access, especially the mouse cursor size setting.
> Many apps have internal settings. Mail... Preferences... Fonts and Colors
> for instance. Firefox, Safari, word processors all have zoom controls.
>
> Yeah, it's a bit more work, but the end result is often better, especially
> if sharpness counts for you, such as in photo editing or gaming.
>

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.3.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Ardell Faul" ardell@icehouse.net   computer_monitor_service_company

Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:52 am (PST)



Bear in mind that if you are using a video signal from an SVGA port or
even from a DVI port, you are displaying ANALOG video and the pixel by
pixel concept will not apply. Only if you are using a HDMI port are you
getting true digital video that does not need to converted back and
forth from digital in your computer to analog for the transmission to
your monitor, where it is again converted back to digital to control the
pixels on your screen.

Ardell Faul
Computer Monitor Service Inc.
Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
10816 E. Mission Ave.,
Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
ardell@icehouse.net
509-891-5188

On 12/14/2011 11:22 AM, Otto Nikolaus wrote:
>
> I would guess that there will be loss of sharpness when not using a
> submultiple of the pixel count in each direction, because the "new" pixels
> can't map onto an exact number of native pixels.
>
> If you exactly halve each dimension I'd expect the sharpness (not the
> resolution, of course) to be retained, but of course this might be too
> drastic a change.
>
> Otto
>
> On 14 December 2011 15:27, Tod Hopkins <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com
> <mailto:hoplist%40hillmanncarr.com>> wrote:
>
> > Lowering the graphics res below the native resolution of the monitor
> will
> > generally soften the image and can sometimes create even worse
> artifacts,
> > or distort the image if you choose and aspect that does not match -
> a 16x9
> > res on a 16x10 monitor for instance.
> >
> > There are others way to increase the size of the interface elements
> > without changing the resolution. This allows you to have your screen
> real
> > estate AND see the elements you need to see.
> >
> > View... Show View Options
> > Preferences... Universal Access, especially the mouse cursor size
> setting.
> > Many apps have internal settings. Mail... Preferences... Fonts and
> Colors
> > for instance. Firefox, Safari, word processors all have zoom controls.
> >
> > Yeah, it's a bit more work, but the end result is often better,
> especially
> > if sharpness counts for you, such as in photo editing or gaming.
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.4.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "André Boey" caenaar@together.net   purpleborzoi

Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:05 pm (PST)



On Dec 13, 2011, at 10:28 PM, "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com wrote:

> 1920 X 1080 is a quite high resolution for a 27-inch monitor. Some
> won't go that high. And who runs their monitor at that high a
> resolution anyway?

I do beg to differ. I'm very happy with 1920 x 1200 on my 24" display. And as a few others have said, Apple's 27" Cinema and Thunderbolt Displays can do 2560 x 1440. So I don't think that res is unreasonably high.

Yes, I do page layout and graphics as well as a good amount of database development, scripting, spreadsheets and finance, and image processing. Desktop space is more important to me than just a big monitor. I can manage multiple apps easily enough with Spaces, but I have other factors to consider:

On Dec 13, 2011, at 10:28 PM, "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com wrote:

> Frankly, I recommend you buy a second display rather than a larger one. You might even consider running one in portrait and the other in landscape, depending on the work you do.

Believe me, Tod, I would. But first I need a bigger desk. :-)
I also have to consider that I run three Macs from my one display in addition to using Remote Desktop to control other Macs I manage. A reliable KVM switch that does dual-link DVI for two displays and three or four Macs just seems too pricey for now. Got suggestions?

Anyway, for my particular situation, a high-res 27" display would be perfect because I won't have to change/upgrade anything else.

Andre

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.5.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com   todhop

Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:10 pm (PST)



For the KVM problem, no suggestions. I have little experience with KVM switches. I'm know there are dual monitor KVMS. And maybe you could use two KVMs, one with keyboard support and one monitor only. Or you could use the dual monitor rig with only one system, using the KVM for one monitor with the second monitor directly connected to the dual rig.

As for desk space, stack vertically. They sell VESA stand mounts that do this, or you can wall mount. Or mount side by side in portrait mode which is better if you work with documents, code, or the web all day rather than video (like I do).

Honestly, I don't know how to rotate the image to portrait on a mac. It used to be common. Anyone? You may need a special driver.

When I use a laptop with second display, I often put the second display up on books with the laptop below on the desk. Works very nicely. Could probably arrange two monitors this way with a bit of cleverness.

Cheers,
tod

On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:05 PM, André Boey wrote:

> On Dec 13, 2011, at 10:28 PM, "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com wrote:
>
> > 1920 X 1080 is a quite high resolution for a 27-inch monitor. Some
> > won't go that high. And who runs their monitor at that high a
> > resolution anyway?
>
> I do beg to differ. I'm very happy with 1920 x 1200 on my 24" display. And as a few others have said, Apple's 27" Cinema and Thunderbolt Displays can do 2560 x 1440. So I don't think that res is unreasonably high.
>
> Yes, I do page layout and graphics as well as a good amount of database development, scripting, spreadsheets and finance, and image processing. Desktop space is more important to me than just a big monitor. I can manage multiple apps easily enough with Spaces, but I have other factors to consider:
>
> On Dec 13, 2011, at 10:28 PM, "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com wrote:
>
> > Frankly, I recommend you buy a second display rather than a larger one. You might even consider running one in portrait and the other in landscape, depending on the work you do.
>
> Believe me, Tod, I would. But first I need a bigger desk. :-)
> I also have to consider that I run three Macs from my one display in addition to using Remote Desktop to control other Macs I manage. A reliable KVM switch that does dual-link DVI for two displays and three or four Macs just seems too pricey for now. Got suggestions?
>
> Anyway, for my particular situation, a high-res 27" display would be perfect because I won't have to change/upgrade anything else.
>
> Andre
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
todhopkins@hillmanncarr.com

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.6.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com   randybrucesinger

Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:43 pm (PST)




On Dec 14, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Ardell Faul wrote:

> Bear in mind that if you are using a video signal from an SVGA port or
> even from a DVI port, you are displaying ANALOG video...

DVI stands for Digital Video Interface...it is a digital video
standard, not analog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
Though it does carry the analog VGA signal and is backwards
compatible with the analog VGA standard if you use an adapter.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.7.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Ardell Faul" ardell@icehouse.net   computer_monitor_service_company

Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:07 pm (PST)



Not always. Here is an excerpt from Newegg abut the types of interfaces:

http://www.newegg.com/product/CategoryIntelligenceArticle.aspx?articleId=186

LCDs operate on digital signals, but some older graphics cards output
only analog signals through the analog D-Sub port. This causes
compatibility problems. To sidestep this problem, many LCDs are equipped
with integrated ADC (Analog to Digital Converter).

This means, according to what has been said in the D-Sub section, that a
digital signal is converted to analog and then reconverted from analog
to digital again. It is a taxing process that does not produce the best
final results. To solve this issue, many graphics processors feature
integrated TMDS transmitters for direct digital output through the DVI
port to ensure a pure, lossless digital signal all the way to the LCD
screen. Many video cards are also being built with external TMDS
transmitters onboard for the same purpose.

DVI ports complying with the DVI1.0 standard are the DVI-I, DVI-D and
DVI-A types. Among them, the DVI-I port is capable of supporting both
digital and analog output. The DVI-D, on the other hand supports pure
digital output, while the DVI-A port supports pure analog output.

The DVI port most often seen on graphics cards is the DVI-I port, which,
direct connection to LCD DVI port aside, will support a DVI to D-Sub
converter in order to provide analog output. The DVI-D port is rather
rare, but can still be found on a few video cards. DVI-A ports are
almost non-existent on video cards.

Ardell Faul
Computer Monitor Service Inc.
Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
10816 E. Mission Ave.,
Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
ardell@icehouse.net
509-891-5188

On 12/14/2011 3:43 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Ardell Faul wrote:
>
> > Bear in mind that if you are using a video signal from an SVGA port or
> > even from a DVI port, you are displaying ANALOG video...
>
> DVI stands for Digital Video Interface...it is a digital video
> standard, not analog.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
> Though it does carry the analog VGA signal and is backwards
> compatible with the analog VGA standard if you use an adapter.
>
> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>
> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
> http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
> ___________________________________________
>
>

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.8.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com   randybrucesinger

Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:42 pm (PST)




On Dec 14, 2011, at 4:07 PM, Ardell Faul wrote:

> Not always.

True. But what you quoted said just about exactly what I said, in
about 100 times more words. The pertinent part being:

"The DVI port most often seen on graphics cards is the DVI-I port,
which, direct connection to LCD DVI port aside, will support a DVI to
D-Sub converter in order to provide analog output. The DVI-D port is
rather rare, but can still be found on a few video cards. DVI-A ports
are almost non-existent on video cards."

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.9.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Ardell Faul" ardell@icehouse.net   computer_monitor_service_company

Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:00 pm (PST)




On 12/14/2011 4:42 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 4:07 PM, Ardell Faul wrote:
>
> > Not always.
>
> True. But what you quoted said just about exactly what I said, in
> about 100 times more words. The pertinent part being:
>
> "The DVI port most often seen on graphics cards is the DVI-I port,
> which, direct connection to LCD DVI port aside, will support a DVI to
> D-Sub converter in order to provide analog output. The DVI-D port is
> rather rare, but can still be found on a few video cards. DVI-A ports
> are almost non-existent on video cards."
>
Right, and YOU said that DVI stands for Digital Video Interface. meaning
I was wrong for suggesting that some DVI outputs were Analog. As you
now have learned, that is not always true. I used a lot of words
because you needed them to learn this truth.

Ardell Faul
Computer Monitor Service Inc.
Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
10816 E. Mission Ave.,
Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
ardell@icehouse.net
509-891-5188

> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>
> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
> http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
> ___________________________________________
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.10.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com   randybrucesinger

Wed Dec 14, 2011 5:35 pm (PST)




On Dec 14, 2011, at 5:00 PM, Ardell Faul wrote:

> Right, and YOU said that DVI stands for Digital Video Interface.
> meaning
> I was wrong for suggesting that some DVI outputs were Analog. As you
> now have learned, that is not always true. I used a lot of words
> because you needed them to learn this truth.

Nope. I knew that and said it.

"Though it does carry the analog VGA signal and is backwards
compatible with the analog VGA standard if you use an adapter."

Meanwhile, what you quoted stated that DVI as a pure analog entity
doesn't really exist:

"DVI-A ports are almost non-existent on video cards."

Before you make a useless pedantic post, you should read what you are
responding to, and your own citations.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.11.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:15 am (PST)



On 14 December 2011 23:43, Randy B. Singer <randy@macattorney.com> wrote:

>
> DVI stands for Digital Video Interface...it is a digital video
> standard, not analog.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
> Though it does carry the analog VGA signal and is backwards
> compatible with the analog VGA standard if you use an adapter.
>
>
Indeed, and you can think of HDMI as being a miniaturised DVI plus digital
audio all in the same connector.

Otto

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Messages in this topic (45)
1.12.

Re: Larger screen monitors for MacBookPro

Posted by: "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com   todhop

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:59 am (PST)



On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Ardell Faul wrote:

> Bear in mind that if you are using a video signal from an SVGA port or
> even from a DVI port, you are displaying ANALOG video and the pixel by
> pixel concept will not apply.
>

It's fuzzier in analog (pun intended) but even analog CRTs have native resolutions. It may seem counter intuitive, but while the signal is "analog" it does effectively, have pixel density, and the face of the CRT definitely has pixels. The better these line up, the sharper the image.

In short, even with a VGA signal, you will get the sharpest image using the native resolution output of your monitor, whether CRT or LCD.

Cheers,
tod

> Only if you are using a HDMI port are you
> getting true digital video that does not need to converted back and
> forth from digital in your computer to analog for the transmission to
> your monitor, where it is again converted back to digital to control the
> pixels on your screen.
>
> Ardell Faul
> Computer Monitor Service Inc.
> Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
> 10816 E. Mission Ave.,
> Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
> ardell@icehouse.net
> 509-891-5188
>
> On 12/14/2011 11:22 AM, Otto Nikolaus wrote:
> >
> > I would guess that there will be loss of sharpness when not using a
> > submultiple of the pixel count in each direction, because the "new" pixels
> > can't map onto an exact number of native pixels.
> >
> > If you exactly halve each dimension I'd expect the sharpness (not the
> > resolution, of course) to be retained, but of course this might be too
> > drastic a change.
> >
> > Otto
> >
> > On 14 December 2011 15:27, Tod Hopkins <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com
> > <mailto:hoplist%40hillmanncarr.com>> wrote:
> >
> > > Lowering the graphics res below the native resolution of the monitor
> > will
> > > generally soften the image and can sometimes create even worse
> > artifacts,
> > > or distort the image if you choose and aspect that does not match -
> > a 16x9
> > > res on a 16x10 monitor for instance.
> > >
> > > There are others way to increase the size of the interface elements
> > > without changing the resolution. This allows you to have your screen
> > real
> > > estate AND see the elements you need to see.
> > >
> > > View... Show View Options
> > > Preferences... Universal Access, especially the mouse cursor size
> > setting.
> > > Many apps have internal settings. Mail... Preferences... Fonts and
> > Colors
> > > for instance. Firefox, Safari, word processors all have zoom controls.
> > >
> > > Yeah, it's a bit more work, but the end result is often better,
> > especially
> > > if sharpness counts for you, such as in photo editing or gaming.
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
todhopkins@hillmanncarr.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (45)
2.

‘Steve Jobs: Billion Dollar Hippy’ BBC documentary air

Posted by: "Bill Boulware" bill.boulware@gmail.com   boulware0224

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:23 am (PST)



http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/9To5Mac-MacAllDay/~3/eclZVRxfqa4/

Sent to you by Bill Boulware via Google Reader: ‘Steve Jobs: Billion
Dollar Hippy’ BBC documentary airs tonight via 9to5Mac by Jordan Kahn
on 12/14/11



BBC is getting set to air a new documentary entitled ‘Steve Jobs:
Billion Dollar Hippy’ tonight at 9:00pm on BBC HD and BBC Two.
According to the Telegraph, the documentary apparently presents a more
“ruthless image of Jobs” where Wozniak reveals that Jobs reduced him to
tears following the release of Walter Isaacson’s ‘Steve Jobs’ bio
(click the image above for the clip of Woz from the doc):

Jobs, for instance, tricked a young Wozniak into writing code for a
computer game but pocketed the majority of the payment for the project
from Atari himself. Wozniak admits on the programme that he cried when
he heard about Jobs’s scam following the release of a book on Jobs.

The doc is hosted by Evan Davis, and features appearances from Tim
Berners-Lee, Rita Clifton, and Stephen Fry. It will also of course
include interviews with Steve Wozniak and others that were close to
Apple and Jobs. The program profiles Avie Tevanian, who worked with
Jobs as head of software at Apple until 2006, who tells a story of
trying to get Jobs to join in on a stag party:

Tevanian organised Jobs’s stag party in 1991, but struggled to persuade
other friends to join them. “They kept saying, ‘nah, I don’t think it’s
appropriate that I go’, or ‘no I’m too busy, I can’t make it’.
Everybody had a reason not to come.”

Woz talked to Radio 4 this morning about the documentary and, among
other things, talked about Jobs and the Apple culture:

I just wanted to be in engineering only â€" I never wanted to run a
company, never wanted to run things, step on other people â€" Steve very
clearly did, and wanted to be a top executive and a really important
thinker in the world…. Apple does a lot of conservative [things] â€" we
control things â€" and has very little tolerance…Even if an engineer told
a friend something and it got out… you’re fired!





Things you can do from here:
- Subscribe to 9to5Mac using Google Reader
- Get started using Google Reader to easily keep up with all your
favorite sites

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Messages in this topic (1)
3a.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:00 pm (PST)




On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:

> Hi All
>
> As someone who advises people and organizations on blogging and internet behavior, I often mention that more people log onto the web when they are faced with trouble while using a device or product, as opposed to the number of people who would spend time evangelizing something.

Yes, the complainers are the speedy. The protagonists hopefully are consistent and enduring, since they tend to be less vocal.

>
> I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
>
> In between, I did purchase another notebook - the Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15" to ensure I could continue with my work while this ordeal of getting the notebook fixed was taking long.

So you believe it is still a good product, even though you wrote and complained to 3 Mac __user__ groups. You weren't asking for help or advice, just detailing your issues.

Of the two types of people you mention above, which does that put you in?

>
> But finally, this morning, Apple has delivered to me a replacement notebook in exchange for the one that I had to ship to them, and since this unit has been delivered to be in a brand-new sealed package, it feels great that somewhere inside the company, they do want to ensure customer satisfaction and are committed to it.

So you finally did what they requested you to do... to allow them to re-evaluate it, before they replace it.

Apparently, the local Authorized Service Providers were not up to the task of properly diagnosing it or repairing it.

Apple does not do advanced replacements on computers, they want to evaluate the computer first, especially on 3 year old products.

>
> In the end, I'd like to thank the readers of the forums for providing support and the kind words of advice I received from a lot many of you - some of the ones who sent me personal notes on how I should deal with them, and I greatly appreciate all the help I received. Also, I would like to thank those, who are on this group and probably work inside of Apple to know what's going on, and I must say all you guys must continue to provide service, and not deny service to a particular individual just because they come from a different country. It does leave a sour taste, especially when the concerns are genuine. Although, I am really glad the process was completed, I really wish it would have happened faster, which would have saved me the extra investment in another machine.
>
> Regards,
> Arjun
> CEO, blowtrumpet.com

Interesting, after you started this thread, the New York Times published an article about the Indian government not allowing foreign retailers into India.

"India Suspends Plan to Let in Foreign Retailers"
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/business/global/india-suspends-plan-to-let-in-foreign-retailers.html?_r=1

Your government's policies and laws prevented Apple from having an official Apple presences in India and providing more convenient service. I have no idea how India's law differ from the US on warranty issues.

You complained that the local Apple Authorized Retailers and Apple Authorized Service Providers would not replace the laptop. You would think that they would have some discretionary decision ability in that area. And if you did enough business with them they might have done it whether or not they might be reimbursed by Apple to keep you happy and your business. You contacted Apple in Ireland and they told you to send it to your regional Apple (Corp.) Repair Center in Singapore, since the local authorized vendor would not replace it. You claimed poverty in that you could not take it to, or ship it to or had a friend who do take it to Singapore, but you purchased a replacement before shipping it off to Singapore. You said nothing about wanting an advanced replacement, but basically that is what you wanted, as your actions have shown. Again, Apple does not do advanced replacements.

You're the Founder and CEO of your company, so, sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me.

I seriously doubt that your posting to this list or others, effected the decision to replace your laptop. Apple tends to take care of their customers. They take pride in their products, brand and reputation. Something maybe your current vendor could learn from.

Yes, I am an Apple enthusiast, and I have been on the phone to a senior Apple engineer a couple of time trying to fix a persistent problem. And I live in the US.

I hope all your Apple products work well for you and you get great satisfaction from them.

Brent
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Messages in this topic (7)
3b.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "Arjun Singhal" arjunsinghal@yahoo.com   arjunsinghal

Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:27 pm (PST)



Dear Mr. Nada

Your note is a little disturbing but I will put down three points to explain myself.

1. I believe if there is some truth in a matter, it must be communicated, not over-rated. I communicated my issues to the group to highlight good and bad practices.

2. I would count myself in the protagonist category, and also the part that OS X is addictive. If you are running OS X and iOS, you're pretty much cornered - that's the way Apple builds its products. You really don't have much choice to go anywhere else.

3. And I did take the unit in. They might be having their policies, but at what cost to the consumer. I was running around without any hope for a long time since May this year. The closest Apple service provider was a few hundred kilometers away from where I have my office. When Apple started to say that they couldn't provide me service in India, and I would have to ship the unit to them in Singapore, I actually felt that they are lousy in their logistics, and that they are trying piggyback on my infrastructure and cost. I took the unit about 11 times for just diagnosis. The unit was also repaired six times. That means 17 times the unit was deposited with Apple Care, and for me, that's 34 trips. In essence, it's actually more than the cost of two Macbook Pros. But the customer often doesn't realize that things won't be right, and you continue to incur such costs over a period of time. The Authorized Service Providers were caught up in political issues it seems because they would acknowledge in my presence the screen flicker, but communicate to Apple that the problem couldn't be replicated. For days they would keep my machine and the hardware tests would pass. This was very bugging, because I even captured it on camera and sent the flics to customer relations. Customer relations acknowledged there was a problem, but insisted on physical verification which the authorised service provider was not communicating properly. It landed me in a soup, and required physical verification three times, meaning six trips to and fro from the service provider. And if someone were to estimate the implied loss of work, because every time I had to spend time extracting data and putting it back, because they would be very confident after fixing it with replaced components that would've solved the problem, there was a cost involved here as well.

In my multiple trips to the authorised service provider and the stores, I met customers who even claimed that apple had replaced their four year old laptops as well for critical problems such as battery explodes where it hits their prestige of not looking into the quality of designing. And it was clear in my case, that they had framed a policy on singling me out, or my country out. They even said at a particular point, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India", which was such a loose remark, because they are supplying goods and services openly in India at large stores, and I really felt it was a racist remark.

We happen to be a small firm that uses a number of apple products, and I guess they listened and provided service after a very persistent effort, but in case it had been someone who was not well aware of policies, he or she would have been taken for a ride. And that's a serious concern here. I guess this is the primary reason I shared my experience with the group.

Regards,
Arjun

On 15-Dec-2011, at 7:30 AM, N.A. Nada wrote:

>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > As someone who advises people and organizations on blogging and internet behavior, I often mention that more people log onto the web when they are faced with trouble while using a device or product, as opposed to the number of people who would spend time evangelizing something.
>
> Yes, the complainers are the speedy. The protagonists hopefully are consistent and enduring, since they tend to be less vocal.
>
> >
> > I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
> >
> > In between, I did purchase another notebook - the Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15" to ensure I could continue with my work while this ordeal of getting the notebook fixed was taking long.
>
> So you believe it is still a good product, even though you wrote and complained to 3 Mac __user__ groups. You weren't asking for help or advice, just detailing your issues.
>
> Of the two types of people you mention above, which does that put you in?
>
> >
> > But finally, this morning, Apple has delivered to me a replacement notebook in exchange for the one that I had to ship to them, and since this unit has been delivered to be in a brand-new sealed package, it feels great that somewhere inside the company, they do want to ensure customer satisfaction and are committed to it.
>
> So you finally did what they requested you to do... to allow them to re-evaluate it, before they replace it.
>
> Apparently, the local Authorized Service Providers were not up to the task of properly diagnosing it or repairing it.
>
> Apple does not do advanced replacements on computers, they want to evaluate the computer first, especially on 3 year old products.
>
> >
> > In the end, I'd like to thank the readers of the forums for providing support and the kind words of advice I received from a lot many of you - some of the ones who sent me personal notes on how I should deal with them, and I greatly appreciate all the help I received. Also, I would like to thank those, who are on this group and probably work inside of Apple to know what's going on, and I must say all you guys must continue to provide service, and not deny service to a particular individual just because they come from a different country. It does leave a sour taste, especially when the concerns are genuine. Although, I am really glad the process was completed, I really wish it would have happened faster, which would have saved me the extra investment in another machine.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arjun
> > CEO, blowtrumpet.com
>
> Interesting, after you started this thread, the New York Times published an article about the Indian government not allowing foreign retailers into India.
>
> "India Suspends Plan to Let in Foreign Retailers"
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/business/global/india-suspends-plan-to-let-in-foreign-retailers.html?_r=1
>
> Your government's policies and laws prevented Apple from having an official Apple presences in India and providing more convenient service. I have no idea how India's law differ from the US on warranty issues.
>
> You complained that the local Apple Authorized Retailers and Apple Authorized Service Providers would not replace the laptop. You would think that they would have some discretionary decision ability in that area. And if you did enough business with them they might have done it whether or not they might be reimbursed by Apple to keep you happy and your business. You contacted Apple in Ireland and they told you to send it to your regional Apple (Corp.) Repair Center in Singapore, since the local authorized vendor would not replace it. You claimed poverty in that you could not take it to, or ship it to or had a friend who do take it to Singapore, but you purchased a replacement before shipping it off to Singapore. You said nothing about wanting an advanced replacement, but basically that is what you wanted, as your actions have shown. Again, Apple does not do advanced replacements.
>
> You're the Founder and CEO of your company, so, sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me.
>
> I seriously doubt that your posting to this list or others, effected the decision to replace your laptop. Apple tends to take care of their customers. They take pride in their products, brand and reputation. Something maybe your current vendor could learn from.
>
> Yes, I am an Apple enthusiast, and I have been on the phone to a senior Apple engineer a couple of time trying to fix a persistent problem. And I live in the US.
>
> I hope all your Apple products work well for you and you get great satisfaction from them.
>
> Brent
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (7)
3c.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "Patti A Robertson" pattiandken@charter.net   parpiano

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:02 pm (PST)



Nothing here about your problems in India, but I also have a Macbook Pro with a flickering screen and so far, no results on repairs either.

It has sat in an authorized Apple repair shop 3 times so far, the problem has been replicated in front of them, they have replaced (so far) logic board and RAM, which fixed part of the problem - that the screen would become "pixelated" but not the flickering problem.

Obviously there's something going on with these machines - I'm in the USA and don't have issues such as yours with having to ship to far-away realms, but still am not satisfied with the service and results I'm receiving either.

The last 2 Macbooks/Pros I've purchased have had defects that needed repair and it makes me wonder about whether the overall quality of Apple products is not what it used to be. Especially with everything I'm hearing now about the newest generation of iPhone...

I've been too busy to just take the machine in and tell them to keep it until they are sure it is fixed for good. Too much going on with income tax season and such coming.

Patti

On Dec 14, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Arjun Singhal wrote:

> Dear Mr. Nada
>
> Your note is a little disturbing but I will put down three points to explain myself.
>
> 1. I believe if there is some truth in a matter, it must be communicated, not over-rated. I communicated my issues to the group to highlight good and bad practices.
>
> 2. I would count myself in the protagonist category, and also the part that OS X is addictive. If you are running OS X and iOS, you're pretty much cornered - that's the way Apple builds its products. You really don't have much choice to go anywhere else.
>
> 3. And I did take the unit in. They might be having their policies, but at what cost to the consumer. I was running around without any hope for a long time since May this year. The closest Apple service provider was a few hundred kilometers away from where I have my office. When Apple started to say that they couldn't provide me service in India, and I would have to ship the unit to them in Singapore, I actually felt that they are lousy in their logistics, and that they are trying piggyback on my infrastructure and cost. I took the unit about 11 times for just diagnosis. The unit was also repaired six times. That means 17 times the unit was deposited with Apple Care, and for me, that's 34 trips. In essence, it's actually more than the cost of two Macbook Pros. But the customer often doesn't realize that things won't be right, and you continue to incur such costs over a period of time. The Authorized Service Providers were caught up in political issues it seems because they would acknowledge in my presence the screen flicker, but communicate to Apple that the problem couldn't be replicated. For days they would keep my machine and the hardware tests would pass. This was very bugging, because I even captured it on camera and sent the flics to customer relations. Customer relations acknowledged there was a problem, but insisted on physical verification which the authorised service provider was not communicating properly. It landed me in a soup, and required physical verification three times, meaning six trips to and fro from the service provider. And if someone were to estimate the implied loss of work, because every time I had to spend time extracting data and putting it back, because they would be very confident after fixing it with replaced components that would've solved the problem, there was a cost involved here as well.
>
> In my multiple trips to the authorised service provider and the stores, I met customers who even claimed that apple had replaced their four year old laptops as well for critical problems such as battery explodes where it hits their prestige of not looking into the quality of designing. And it was clear in my case, that they had framed a policy on singling me out, or my country out. They even said at a particular point, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India", which was such a loose remark, because they are supplying goods and services openly in India at large stores, and I really felt it was a racist remark.
>
> We happen to be a small firm that uses a number of apple products, and I guess they listened and provided service after a very persistent effort, but in case it had been someone who was not well aware of policies, he or she would have been taken for a ride. And that's a serious concern here. I guess this is the primary reason I shared my experience with the group.
>
> Regards,
> Arjun
>
>
>
> On 15-Dec-2011, at 7:30 AM, N.A. Nada wrote:
>
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All
>>>
>>> As someone who advises people and organizations on blogging and internet behavior, I often mention that more people log onto the web when they are faced with trouble while using a device or product, as opposed to the number of people who would spend time evangelizing something.
>>
>> Yes, the complainers are the speedy. The protagonists hopefully are consistent and enduring, since they tend to be less vocal.
>>
>>>
>>> I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
>>>
>>> In between, I did purchase another notebook - the Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15" to ensure I could continue with my work while this ordeal of getting the notebook fixed was taking long.
>>
>> So you believe it is still a good product, even though you wrote and complained to 3 Mac __user__ groups. You weren't asking for help or advice, just detailing your issues.
>>
>> Of the two types of people you mention above, which does that put you in?
>>
>>>
>>> But finally, this morning, Apple has delivered to me a replacement notebook in exchange for the one that I had to ship to them, and since this unit has been delivered to be in a brand-new sealed package, it feels great that somewhere inside the company, they do want to ensure customer satisfaction and are committed to it.
>>
>> So you finally did what they requested you to do... to allow them to re-evaluate it, before they replace it.
>>
>> Apparently, the local Authorized Service Providers were not up to the task of properly diagnosing it or repairing it.
>>
>> Apple does not do advanced replacements on computers, they want to evaluate the computer first, especially on 3 year old products.
>>
>>>
>>> In the end, I'd like to thank the readers of the forums for providing support and the kind words of advice I received from a lot many of you - some of the ones who sent me personal notes on how I should deal with them, and I greatly appreciate all the help I received. Also, I would like to thank those, who are on this group and probably work inside of Apple to know what's going on, and I must say all you guys must continue to provide service, and not deny service to a particular individual just because they come from a different country. It does leave a sour taste, especially when the concerns are genuine. Although, I am really glad the process was completed, I really wish it would have happened faster, which would have saved me the extra investment in another machine.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Arjun
>>> CEO, blowtrumpet.com
>>
>> Interesting, after you started this thread, the New York Times published an article about the Indian government not allowing foreign retailers into India.
>>
>> "India Suspends Plan to Let in Foreign Retailers"
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/business/global/india-suspends-plan-to-let-in-foreign-retailers.html?_r=1
>>
>> Your government's policies and laws prevented Apple from having an official Apple presences in India and providing more convenient service. I have no idea how India's law differ from the US on warranty issues.
>>
>> You complained that the local Apple Authorized Retailers and Apple Authorized Service Providers would not replace the laptop. You would think that they would have some discretionary decision ability in that area. And if you did enough business with them they might have done it whether or not they might be reimbursed by Apple to keep you happy and your business. You contacted Apple in Ireland and they told you to send it to your regional Apple (Corp.) Repair Center in Singapore, since the local authorized vendor would not replace it. You claimed poverty in that you could not take it to, or ship it to or had a friend who do take it to Singapore, but you purchased a replacement before shipping it off to Singapore. You said nothing about wanting an advanced replacement, but basically that is what you wanted, as your actions have shown. Again, Apple does not do advanced replacements.
>>
>> You're the Founder and CEO of your company, so, sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me.
>>
>> I seriously doubt that your posting to this list or others, effected the decision to replace your laptop. Apple tends to take care of their customers. They take pride in their products, brand and reputation. Something maybe your current vendor could learn from.
>>
>> Yes, I am an Apple enthusiast, and I have been on the phone to a senior Apple engineer a couple of time trying to fix a persistent problem. And I live in the US.
>>
>> I hope all your Apple products work well for you and you get great satisfaction from them.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (7)
3d.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "paul smith" kullervo@nycap.rr.com   waldonny

Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:21 pm (PST)



It is important to remember that you are vastly more likely to hear about problems than about smooth, no-hassle experiences.
Also important to note is that Apple's volume of sales is much greater than it has ever before been in the history of the company. The iPhone 4S has been smashing sales records, and the MacBook Pro line has also been selling more units than ever. So even if the percentage of defective units has remained steady (or even declined slightly), the raw number of defective units will increase along with the number of total units.
I say this as the owner of a brand new iPhone 4S and a nearly 4 year old MBP, both of which have worked perfectly with no defects at all.
--
PSmith
MacBook Pro, 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4 GB DDR2 SDRAM, OS 10.7.2 iPhone 4S 64 GB, iOS 5.0.1

On Dec 15, 2011, at 1:02 AM, Patti A Robertson wrote:

The last 2 Macbooks/Pros I've purchased have had defects that needed repair and it makes me wonder about whether the overall quality of Apple products is not what it used to be. Especially with everything I'm hearing now about the newest generation of iPhone...

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Messages in this topic (7)
3e.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "jayant m" jmurthy@yahoo.com   jmurthy

Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:03 am (PST)



> > I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
...
> Arjun,
>
> Apple has always been this way to me. I always share the story of my iMac being replaced with a brand new one on the last night of it's Applecare agreement, 3 years old. It had been in the shop once a month for the last 4 months of it's life. On the last night, I had just taken re-delivery of the unit and it seemed to be OK, but occasionally just a little flaky. I called Apple support and just relayed to them, kind of off-the-cuff, that I was still having a bit of a problem. Not being irate or nasty. Within 3 minutes I was on the phone to a senior person and he offered to exchange my 3 year old iMac for a new one. Wow, that was it. They exchanged it, no hassles.
>
> This was in 2010. I had one earlier machine exchanged. A Powermac G5. In that instance, the unit was 3 months old. A brand new design, and very expensive. They advance shipped a unit to me immediately.
>
> Apple has always done right by me, so to speak.
>
> Harry
>
>
> Harry Flaxman
> harry.flaxman@...
>

Apple support and sales in India are quite poor which is why I will not buy either an Iphone or an Ipad. Options are severely limited, including in the MacBooks (it's a hassle for me to get 8 GB RAM, even). Android tablets and 'phones are coming out in India before they come out in the US while Ipads and Iphones are months delayed and generations behind.

Jayant

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Messages in this topic (7)
4a.

Re: OT: PayPal accounts

Posted by: "Oneal Neumann" wardell.h.s@gmail.com   newalander

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:17 pm (PST)




I tried to get this info from the PayPal website, however there was nothing there that specifically dealt with my issue.

I have a PayPal account. I want to donate ANONYMOUSLY, however I do not see anything that says that I can do that.

With respect to creditcards, there are real links. For instance, my VISA card (which is linked to PayPal) idees me, so I can't make any direct donation with it.

Will PayPal reveal who I am if I use it for donations?

On a related (but currently nonpressing) issue, I write under a literary alias. I want to be able to set up a PayPal account that will allow me to be paid as who I am, literarily speaking. Can that be done? I have not found anything yet on PayPal.

Thanx. Oneal

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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4b.

Re: OT: PayPal accounts

Posted by: "Tod Hopkins" hoplist@hillmanncarr.com   todhop

Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:50 am (PST)



It is difficult to be truly anonymous in electronic payments. What would constitute "revealing" your identity? Your real name? You can set up a PayPal account that is not under your real name the way many businesses do. I believe you would be anonymous as an individual, at least in the initial transaction. PayPal certainly knows who you are, though you could step back from this one degree by setting up a business entity and linking the account to this. How anonymous the business entity is would depend on how you set it up. And since PayPal is not in the business of protecting your identity, it's probably possible to link a PayPal account name back to it's owner even if it is not visible in the transaction, which brings us back to how anonymous do you want to be.

I would not trust Paypal to give you a reliable answer anyway. If you really want to know, I suggest paying yourself. Or ask a friend to send you a dollar and see what info you get.

cheers,
tod

On Dec 13, 2011, at 2:00 PM, Oneal Neumann wrote:

>
> I tried to get this info from the PayPal website, however there was nothing there that specifically dealt with my issue.
>
> I have a PayPal account. I want to donate ANONYMOUSLY, however I do not see anything that says that I can do that.
>
> With respect to creditcards, there are real links. For instance, my VISA card (which is linked to PayPal) idees me, so I can‚t make any direct donation with it.
>
> Will PayPal reveal who I am if I use it for donations?
>
> On a related (but currently nonpressing) issue, I write under a literary alias. I want to be able to set up a PayPal account that will allow me to be paid as who I am, literarily speaking. Can that be done? I have not found anything yet on PayPal.
>
> Thanx. Oneal
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Tod Hopkins
Hillmann & Carr Inc.
todhopkins@hillmanncarr.com

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Messages in this topic (2)
5.

MacBook Pro with 2880x1800 resolution?

Posted by: "Denver Dan" denver.dan@verizon.net   denverdan22180

Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:27 pm (PST)



Howdy.

DigiTimes has a report that predicts Apple may release a new MacBook
Pro in second quarter of 2012 with a very high resolution (Retina
Display?) screen.

The new screen, if real, could have a resolution of 2880 x 1800.

This would be, I think, something like four times the pixels of the
current MacBook Pro model.

Denver Dan

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Messages in this topic (1)
6.

ADMIN (was Re: [macsupport] OT: PayPal accounts)

Posted by: "Michel Munger" michel@macsupportcentral.com   mmungermtl

Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:44 pm (PST)



Please do not hold off-topic discussions on Mac Support Central. Thank you.

Michel (Group owner)

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