15 New Messages
Digest #9329
Messages
Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:36 am (PST) . Posted by:
"HAL9000" jrswebhome
System Prefs/Sharing/Screen Sharing uses VNC, a protocol which has clients available on virtually every platform. Because of VNC, a Mac can be remotely accessed and controlled from other devices like an iPad, iPhone, Android, Linux machine, and even Windows, all you need is a VNC client, of which there are many free varieties available.
--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , Dave C wrote:
>
> A friend is having issues connecting with a PC from her iMac. It's a recent (2012) model running Lion.
>
> She says:
>
> "I use a program called GoToMyPC to access a clients system remotely. It requires Java. System worked fine Thursday all day. Tonight when I was checking the computer, I could not log onto this remote computer. I can log onto GoToMyPC but when I attempted to connect it indicates that I had "missing plug-ins". I downloaded and installed Java again for OS 10.7. I received a prompt indicating Java installed successfully....... Now when I try to connect is says "java download failed". When I look under system preferences and click on Java it says I have the correct version of java for my version of OS and that it is enabled????? Any ideas? "
>
> I have zero experience with GoToMyPC so can offer limited suggestions beyond what she's done re. Java.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
> (Maybe the Maya really meant that it will be the end of *computers* around this time...)
>
--- In macsupportcentral@
>
> A friend is having issues connecting with a PC from her iMac. It's a recent (2012) model running Lion.
>
> She says:
>
> "I use a program called GoToMyPC to access a clients system remotely. It requires Java. System worked fine Thursday all day. Tonight when I was checking the computer, I could not log onto this remote computer. I can log onto GoToMyPC but when I attempted to connect it indicates that I had "missing plug-ins"
>
> I have zero experience with GoToMyPC so can offer limited suggestions beyond what she's done re. Java.
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
> (Maybe the Maya really meant that it will be the end of *computers* around this time...)
>
Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:27 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Otto Nikolaus" nikyzf
Dan,
I haven't seen a DPI setting in a camera. Which model is your Nikon?
Otto
On 13 January 2013 15:49, Denver Dan denver.dan@verizon.net > wrote:
> Howdy.
>
> Dave, several responders have suggested that you are seeing the results
> of the lossy JPEG file format.
>
> Book Alert! A long reply follows. Only read if interested in the
> topic of compressed and lossy file formats.
>
> A JPEG image is a compressed file format. The JPEG compression is a
> type that when the JPEG file is saved data is permanently discarded in
> order to make the file smaller.
>
> Most software programs, and digital cameras, can be set for different
> levels of JPEG compression. Normally you can pick between JPEG levels
> of 1 to 10. A JPEG level 1 is very high compression (and high loss of
> data) up to a JPEG 10 with low compression (a bigger file) and low data
> loss.
>
> Video files, I think nearly all of them, are also compressed. Many
> video compression methods are available and these use something called
> a Codec (or, Compression/Decompression) method such as MPG4, WMV, or
> other.
>
> Music files are also often compressed. A very common audio file is the
> MPG which is highly compressed (and lossy). If you look at the import
> preferences for iTunes it gives you several different types of RIP file
> formats for when you import/RIP an audio CD into iTunes and some are
> lossy and some are not. The non lossy music file formats result in
> larger music files but usually better audio.
>
> A GIF image file format is also a compressed file format but different
> from JPEG. While a JPEG file can contain millions of colors and GIF
> file can only have a maximum of 256 colors so a good quality photo that
> is saved in GIF format automatically losses all of those colors, hues,
> shades. But a GIF file can also be saved with fewer colors. One
> reason that GIF is still used is that a GIF file can have just one
> color, or just two colors (like a black and white corporate logo) and
> this results in a tiny file size that downloads very quickly on a web
> page. A GIF file can also be used for other web page tricks such as
> files with a transparent background color or an animated GIF file that
> appears to be a short movie (it's really a series of images each of
> which is slightly altered to mimic motion).
>
> You may see the term CompuServeGIF (in Adobe Photoshop, for example)
> because CompuServe originally developed the GIF file format back in the
> days of SLOW dialup internet. A legal wrangle over GIF resulted and a
> newer file format called PNG was developed. PNG can combine the
> flexibility of JPEG and GIF and if used properly can result in small
> but high quality compressed images but PNG hasn't really caught on in a
> big way.
>
> Professional photogs will shoot pictures in a high quality JPEG file
> format but they understand that if they edit and save a JPEG multiple
> times it will soon loss so much quality as to become unusable so before
> editing they will convert the JPEG to a format like Photoshop's PSD non
> lossy high quality format for editing. I keep my Nikon DSLR camera
> set at the 300 dpi JPEG file format rather than a lower quality file
> format because this works well for quality, for most smaller snap shot
> paper sizes (like 4x6 inches) if I want to print, and it means more
> images can fit on a hard drive or SD camera card. Of course, if I
> picked a 72 dpi JPEG size a LOT more pictures could fit on the SD
> camera card but 72 dpi while it will look just fine on screen is just
> way too low a resolution for even medium quality printing.
>
> TIFF is used as a good quality and non lossy file format for images for
> photo graphics and desktop publishing. TIFF image file format was
> initially developed for scanning of photos. Some digital cameras can
> be set to make TIFF images. A TIFF image file retains aspects of the
> original photograph's limits such as it must be a square or rectangle
> image. TIFF images can also be compressed but the technique is not a
> lossy compression
>
> ESP is another image format. Mostly used by professionals these days.
> ESP, meaning Encapsulated PostScript, offers some fun tricks for those
> who would like to work in programs like Adobe Photoshop to achieve some
> nifty results on paper. An ESP can be any shape, can have transparent
> parts, and other effects. For example, if you spend a few minutes in
> Photoshop learning to create a clipping path (see Clipping Mask in
> recent versions of Photoshop) you could make an image of a donut with a
> transparent hole in the middle that another image can be seen through.
> You could make an image of a new red Corvette sports car and through
> the windshield see your great grandfather as the driver (takes some
> skill and time!).
>
> RAW is a digital camera file format that is not available in all
> digital cameras. The various camera makers have not agreed on a common
> term for the RAW file format so each camera makers may used a separate
> term for this. A RAW digital file is, in essence, the exact pixel data
> that the digital camera's engine captures. However, you can't display
> RAW data on screen and it first has to be converted. Photoshop offers
> some significant and serious options and settings for working with RAW
> data files. A RAW photo image file can be very large. I've worked
> with photogs who may often be using a single image file done via a RAW
> camera setting that is 250 GB is size.
>
> Nikon's term for RAW is NEF. I think Canon uses the term CR2 for RAW.
> Sony uses the term ARW for RAW.
>
> Many decent ink jet printers are optimized to do a nice print of JPEG
> files because it's such a popular format but IMO anything below 300 dpi
> results in loss of quality. However, there are so many factors
> involved from quality of the printer, type of ink, color calibration
> process used, quality of paper, settings for the printer, that it's
> impossible to generalize on this topic.
>
> As I mentioned in part above, I normally set my DSLR camera to the 300
> dpi JPEG setting. If I know in advance that I'm taking pictures that I
> will want to enlarge, or to edit extensively, or to print at high
> quality on high quality ink jet paper, I set the camera to the RAW file
> format. Before I will print a 300 dpi JPEG file, the first thing I do
> is open and save it on the Mac as an Adobe Photoshop PSD file format
> and edit in that. For images that I will send via email that won't be
> printed, I'll edit the image and convert to 72 dpi JPEG.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I haven't seen a DPI setting in a camera. Which model is your Nikon?
Otto
On 13 January 2013 15:49, Denver Dan denver.dan@verizon.
> Howdy.
>
> Dave, several responders have suggested that you are seeing the results
> of the lossy JPEG file format.
>
> Book Alert! A long reply follows. Only read if interested in the
> topic of compressed and lossy file formats.
>
> A JPEG image is a compressed file format. The JPEG compression is a
> type that when the JPEG file is saved data is permanently discarded in
> order to make the file smaller.
>
> Most software programs, and digital cameras, can be set for different
> levels of JPEG compression. Normally you can pick between JPEG levels
> of 1 to 10. A JPEG level 1 is very high compression (and high loss of
> data) up to a JPEG 10 with low compression (a bigger file) and low data
> loss.
>
> Video files, I think nearly all of them, are also compressed. Many
> video compression methods are available and these use something called
> a Codec (or, Compression/
> other.
>
> Music files are also often compressed. A very common audio file is the
> MPG which is highly compressed (and lossy). If you look at the import
> preferences for iTunes it gives you several different types of RIP file
> formats for when you import/RIP an audio CD into iTunes and some are
> lossy and some are not. The non lossy music file formats result in
> larger music files but usually better audio.
>
> A GIF image file format is also a compressed file format but different
> from JPEG. While a JPEG file can contain millions of colors and GIF
> file can only have a maximum of 256 colors so a good quality photo that
> is saved in GIF format automatically losses all of those colors, hues,
> shades. But a GIF file can also be saved with fewer colors. One
> reason that GIF is still used is that a GIF file can have just one
> color, or just two colors (like a black and white corporate logo) and
> this results in a tiny file size that downloads very quickly on a web
> page. A GIF file can also be used for other web page tricks such as
> files with a transparent background color or an animated GIF file that
> appears to be a short movie (it's really a series of images each of
> which is slightly altered to mimic motion).
>
> You may see the term CompuServeGIF (in Adobe Photoshop, for example)
> because CompuServe originally developed the GIF file format back in the
> days of SLOW dialup internet. A legal wrangle over GIF resulted and a
> newer file format called PNG was developed. PNG can combine the
> flexibility of JPEG and GIF and if used properly can result in small
> but high quality compressed images but PNG hasn't really caught on in a
> big way.
>
> Professional photogs will shoot pictures in a high quality JPEG file
> format but they understand that if they edit and save a JPEG multiple
> times it will soon loss so much quality as to become unusable so before
> editing they will convert the JPEG to a format like Photoshop'
> lossy high quality format for editing. I keep my Nikon DSLR camera
> set at the 300 dpi JPEG file format rather than a lower quality file
> format because this works well for quality, for most smaller snap shot
> paper sizes (like 4x6 inches) if I want to print, and it means more
> images can fit on a hard drive or SD camera card. Of course, if I
> picked a 72 dpi JPEG size a LOT more pictures could fit on the SD
> camera card but 72 dpi while it will look just fine on screen is just
> way too low a resolution for even medium quality printing.
>
> TIFF is used as a good quality and non lossy file format for images for
> photo graphics and desktop publishing. TIFF image file format was
> initially developed for scanning of photos. Some digital cameras can
> be set to make TIFF images. A TIFF image file retains aspects of the
> original photograph&#
> image. TIFF images can also be compressed but the technique is not a
> lossy compression
>
> ESP is another image format. Mostly used by professionals these days.
> ESP, meaning Encapsulated PostScript, offers some fun tricks for those
> who would like to work in programs like Adobe Photoshop to achieve some
> nifty results on paper. An ESP can be any shape, can have transparent
> parts, and other effects. For example, if you spend a few minutes in
> Photoshop learning to create a clipping path (see Clipping Mask in
> recent versions of Photoshop) you could make an image of a donut with a
> transparent hole in the middle that another image can be seen through.
> You could make an image of a new red Corvette sports car and through
> the windshield see your great grandfather as the driver (takes some
> skill and time!).
>
> RAW is a digital camera file format that is not available in all
> digital cameras. The various camera makers have not agreed on a common
> term for the RAW file format so each camera makers may used a separate
> term for this. A RAW digital file is, in essence, the exact pixel data
> that the digital camera's engine captures. However, you can't display
> RAW data on screen and it first has to be converted. Photoshop offers
> some significant and serious options and settings for working with RAW
> data files. A RAW photo image file can be very large. I've worked
> with photogs who may often be using a single image file done via a RAW
> camera setting that is 250 GB is size.
>
> Nikon's term for RAW is NEF. I think Canon uses the term CR2 for RAW.
> Sony uses the term ARW for RAW.
>
> Many decent ink jet printers are optimized to do a nice print of JPEG
> files because it's such a popular format but IMO anything below 300 dpi
> results in loss of quality. However, there are so many factors
> involved from quality of the printer, type of ink, color calibration
> process used, quality of paper, settings for the printer, that it's
> impossible to generalize on this topic.
>
> As I mentioned in part above, I normally set my DSLR camera to the 300
> dpi JPEG setting. If I know in advance that I'm taking pictures that I
> will want to enlarge, or to edit extensively, or to print at high
> quality on high quality ink jet paper, I set the camera to the RAW file
> format. Before I will print a 300 dpi JPEG file, the first thing I do
> is open and save it on the Mac as an Adobe Photoshop PSD file format
> and edit in that. For images that I will send via email that won't be
> printed, I'll edit the image and convert to 72 dpi JPEG.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:42 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Ken" ken.klein
Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
If so, how do I disable it?
Thanks,
Ken Klein
If so, how do I disable it?
Thanks,
Ken Klein
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:07 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Tom Guenthner" tomguenthner
NO
On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Ken wrote:
> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>
> If so, how do I disable it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Klein
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:42 PM, Ken wrote:
> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>
> If so, how do I disable it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Klein
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:14 am (PST) . Posted by:
"HAL9000" jrswebhome
I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , "Ken" wrote:
>
> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>
> If so, how do I disable it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Klein
>
Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
--- In macsupportcentral@
>
> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>
> If so, how do I disable it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ken Klein
>
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:23 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Jim Smith" jimmacsmith
And you think the government knows what it doing?
Jim Smith
www.rvcarelogbook.com
On Jan 13, 2013, at 2:14 PM, HAL9000 wrote:
> I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
>
> Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
>
>
> --- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , "Ken" wrote:
>>
>> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>>
>> If so, how do I disable it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ken Klein
>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Smith
www.rvcarelogbook.
On Jan 13, 2013, at 2:14 PM, HAL9000 wrote:
> I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
>
> Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
>
>
> --- In macsupportcentral@
>>
>> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>>
>> If so, how do I disable it?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ken Klein
>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:33 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Dave C" davec2468
Please explain.
-=-=-=-
On 13 January 2013, at 11:07 AM, Tom Guenthner wrote:
> NO
-=-=-=-
On 13 January 2013, at 11:07 AM, Tom Guenthner wrote:
> NO
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:34 am (PST) . Posted by:
"HAL9000" jrswebhome
Share w us your wisdom, please.
--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , Jim Smith wrote:
>
> And you think the government knows what it doing?
>
> Jim Smith
> www.rvcarelogbook.com
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 2:14 PM, HAL9000 wrote:
>
> > I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
> >
> > Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
> >
> >
> > --- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , "Ken" wrote:
> >>
> >> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
> >>
> >> If so, how do I disable it?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ken Klein
> >>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
--- In macsupportcentral@
>
> And you think the government knows what it doing?
>
> Jim Smith
> www.rvcarelogbook.
>
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 2:14 PM, HAL9000 wrote:
>
> > I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
> >
> > Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
> >
> >
> > --- In macsupportcentral@
> >>
> >> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
> >>
> >> If so, how do I disable it?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Ken Klein
> >>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:47 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01
>> Should I be concerned? I'm running Mountain Lion on my MACBookPro.
>> If so, how do I disable it?
>> Ken Klein
>
> I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
>
> Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
In ./Applications/Utilities is a program called Java Preferences.
I have removed Java from my machine; when I run Java Preferences, it tells me:
> To open "Java Preferences.app," you need a Java SE 6 runtime.
> Would you like to install one now?
This *tells me* that I have no Java runtime on my machine.
If you run this and get a different report, I believe it will then let you turn Java on or off for the entire machine (not just for a single browser).
As far as I can tell, I don't run anything, or go to any site, that requires Java.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com
>> If so, how do I disable it?
>> Ken Klein
>
> I thought one must go to Safari (or whatever browser you use) Preferences find the button to Enable Java and unclick or DISABLE Java.
>
> Homeland Security is advising everyone to DISABLE Java on any computer.
In ./Applications/
I have removed Java from my machine; when I run Java Preferences, it tells me:
> To open "Java Preferences.
> Would you like to install one now?
This *tells me* that I have no Java runtime on my machine.
If you run this and get a different report, I believe it will then let you turn Java on or off for the entire machine (not just for a single browser).
As far as I can tell, I don't run anything, or go to any site, that requires Java.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.
Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:48 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Barbara Adamski" bkadamski
Hello there.
I just had my screen replaced but the new one is giving me real issues. I will take it back to the shop, but first I wanted to do some basic troubleshooting, just in case it's something simple.
Here's what's happening:
The image is pixelated throughout, and substantially faded in the top left quadrant of the screen. It also flickers every 10 seconds or so between slightly darker and lighter. There are also three faint horizontal white lines, one near the bottom, one an inch above that, and the other an inch above the second one.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Barb
I just had my screen replaced but the new one is giving me real issues. I will take it back to the shop, but first I wanted to do some basic troubleshooting, just in case it's something simple.
Here's what's happening:
The image is pixelated throughout, and substantially faded in the top left quadrant of the screen. It also flickers every 10 seconds or so between slightly darker and lighter. There are also three faint horizontal white lines, one near the bottom, one an inch above that, and the other an inch above the second one.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Barb
Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:54 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Barry Austern" barryaus
On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Barbara Adamski wrote:
> Hello there.
>
> I just had my screen replaced but the new one is giving me real issues. I will take it back to the shop, but first I wanted to do some basic troubleshooting, just in case it's something simple.
>
> Here's what's happening:
>
> The image is pixelated throughout, and substantially faded in the top left quadrant of the screen. It also flickers every 10 seconds or so between slightly darker and lighter. There are also three faint horizontal white lines, one near the bottom, one an inch above that, and the other an inch above the second one.
>
Please refresh us on why it was replaced in the first place. Was it for such problems? In other words, either they did not fix it or they did a bad job and created a new problem. Do take it back and get them to fix it properly. If this was the original problem then the problem was not with the screen but with the circuitry, so you should not be forced to pay for a new screen, assuming you did have to pay for the repair.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:57 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Barbara Adamski" bkadamski
So, I ran disk utility, then shut down and unplugged/replugged in everything, and now it seems okay. I'm not sure if this is going to be a permanent or temp solution, though. I will keep monitoring the situation (no pun intended).
If anyone has experienced something similar, though, let me know.
Cheers,
Barb
On 2013-01-13, at 10:48 AM, Barbara Adamski adamski@telus.net > wrote
> Hello there.
>
> I just had my screen replaced but the new one is giving me real issues. I will take it back to the shop, but first I wanted to do some basic troubleshooting, just in case it's something simple.
>
> Here's what's happening:
>
> The image is pixelated throughout, and substantially faded in the top left quadrant of the screen. It also flickers every 10 seconds or so between slightly darker and lighter. There are also three faint horizontal white lines, one near the bottom, one an inch above that, and the other an inch above the second one.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Barb
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If anyone has experienced something similar, though, let me know.
Cheers,
Barb
On 2013-01-13, at 10:48 AM, Barbara Adamski adamski@telus.
> Hello there.
>
> I just had my screen replaced but the new one is giving me real issues. I will take it back to the shop, but first I wanted to do some basic troubleshooting, just in case it's something simple.
>
> Here's what's happening:
>
> The image is pixelated throughout, and substantially faded in the top left quadrant of the screen. It also flickers every 10 seconds or so between slightly darker and lighter. There are also three faint horizontal white lines, one near the bottom, one an inch above that, and the other an inch above the second one.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Barb
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:07 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Dave C" davec2468
Suggestions for free or commercial that you have experience with and can recommend?
Thanks,
Dave
Thanks,
Dave
Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:45 am (PST) . Posted by:
"HAL9000" jrswebhome
A quick search in Google led me to:
System/Library/Core Services/Screen Sharing.app (drag to Dock)
Opens to input Host's address.
I am in Snow Leopard.
For Lion or later, someone else must advise.
"Chicken" for OSX is mentioned for further purposes.
--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , Dave C wrote:
>
> Suggestions for free or commercial that you have experience with and can recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
System/Library/
Opens to input Host's address.
I am in Snow Leopard.
For Lion or later, someone else must advise.
"Chicken" for OSX is mentioned for further purposes.
--- In macsupportcentral@
>
> Suggestions for free or commercial that you have experience with and can recommend?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>
Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:06 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Dave C" davec2468
On 13 January 2013, at 11:44 AM, HAL9000 wrote:
> A quick search in Google led me to:
-=-=-=-
>> that you have experience with and can recommend?
I, too, can -- and have -- Googled. The reason I like such lists as these is for *recommendations* that come from experience.
Dave
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> A quick search in Google led me to:
-=-=-=-
>> that you have experience with and can recommend?
I, too, can -- and have -- Googled. The reason I like such lists as these is for *recommendations* that come from experience.
Dave
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
GROUP FOOTER MESSAGE
