*
Otto:

What is the advantage of separating Apple apps and third-party apps?

earle
*
On Mar 25, 13, at 5:15 AM, Otto Nikolaus <otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On 25 March 2013 03:06, Jim Saklad <jimdoc@icloud.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones
> > that come with the operating system.
> >
> > My best estimate of the native apps is:
> >
> > App Store.app
> > Automator.app
> > Bento.app
> > Calculator.app
> > Calendar.app
> > Chess.app
> > Contacts.app
> > Dashboard.app
> > Dictionary.app
> > Display Menu.app
> > DVD Player.app
> > FaceTime.app
> > Feedback Assistant.app
> > Font Book.app
> > Game Center.app
> > Image Capture.app
> > iMovie.app
> > iPhoto.app
> > iToner.app
> > iTunes.app
> > iWeb.app
> > Launchpad.app
> > Mail.app
> > Messages.app
> > Mission Control.app
> > Notes.app
> > Photo Booth.app
> > Preview.app
> > QuickTime Player.app
> > Reminders.app
> > Safari.app
> > SMARTReporter.app
> > Stickies.app
> > System Preferences.app
> > TextEdit.app
> > Time Machine.app
> >
>
> Plus the ones in Applications > Utilities, of course. ;)
>
> Otto
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

_______________________
Earle Jones 
501 Portola Road #8008
Portola Valley CA 94028
Home: 650-424-4362
Cell: 650-269-0035
earle.jones@comcast.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1b

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:58 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01

>> ...
>> System Preferences.app
>> TextEdit.app
>> Time Machine.app
>
> Plus the ones in Applications > Utilities, of course. ;)
> Otto

Of course <grin>....

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1c

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:28 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Otto Nikolaus" nikyzf

Earle,

Perhaps you meant to ask Jim, because I have no strong feelings either way?

Otto

On 25 March 2013 14:34, Earle Jones <earle.jones@comcast.net> wrote:

> *
> Otto:
>
> What is the advantage of separating Apple apps and third-party apps?
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1d

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:48 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"N.A. Nada"

Looks like you have had some of these forever, too. But the ones below are either not from Apple or not visible.

Doris, you can always Get Info on each app. Or depending on what you are trying to do and depending on which OS X you are using, use System Information/ Software to see if you have PowerPC apps, and are using 10.7 or above, they will no longer work.

Doris, what are you trying to accomplish?

Bento is not native. It is from FileMaker, (which Apple does own, but is not part of Apple or the Mac OS X.)
Feedback Assistant, I do not see it as a visible stand alone app.
iToner, what is it? It is from Ambrosia Software, Inc.
SMARTReporter is from corecode.at. (Opps! looks like time for an update, and maybe even a paid update.)

And don't forget that Apple sometimes includes some of its software free with some models. Like the iLife or iWorks groups of apps. I also believe iWeb is end of life, and no longer available.

To Earle, separating them into two files was Jim's suggestion. It helps in just this situation, especially when trying to troubleshoot a new problem or move to a new Mac. When Apple dropped Rosetta, it made it easier to make up a list of the apps I needed to check to see if I needed to update or find a replacement.

And I am sure that he has found that separating them into two folders needs constant vigilance like my attempts at labeling them with colors. Many installers automatically put it in to the Apps folder, and or remove any label you might place on an app. With every new install or update, you have to check the folders. Heck, I have tried to keep an spreadsheet of the changes, installs, setting changes and mods I have made over the years to each Mac I have owned, and heaven knows it is incomplete.

Brent

On Mar 24, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Jim Saklad wrote:

> Where can I find what applications are original to Apple and what I've downloaded. I'm afriad I did not keep any record and get a little download-happy at times.

I put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones that come with the operating system.

My best estimate of the native apps is:

App Store.app
Automator.app
Bento.app
Calculator.app
Calendar.app
Chess.app
Contacts.app
Dashboard.app
Dictionary.app
Display Menu.app
DVD Player.app
FaceTime.app
Feedback Assistant.app
Font Book.app
Game Center.app
Image Capture.app
iMovie.app
iPhoto.app
iToner.app
iTunes.app
iWeb.app
Launchpad.app
Mail.app
Messages.app
Mission Control.app
Notes.app
Photo Booth.app
Preview.app
QuickTime Player.app
Reminders.app
Safari.app
SMARTReporter.app
Stickies.app
System Preferences.app
TextEdit.app
Time Machine.app

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1e

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:00 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01

>> I put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones that come with the operating system.
>
> What is the advantage of separating Apple apps and third-party apps?
> earle

When you install a new (major) iteration of the MacOS, your Applications folder is likely to get overwritten with the standard, default one from the new OS.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1f

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:07 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Earle Jones" earlejones501

On Mar 25, 13, at 4:00 PM, Jim Saklad <jimdoc@icloud.com> wrote:

> >> I put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones that come with the operating system.
> >
> > What is the advantage of separating Apple apps and third-party apps?
> > earle
>
> When you install a new (major) iteration of the MacOS, your Applications folder is likely to get overwritten with the standard, default one from the new OS.
>
>

*
Thanks, Jim.

earle
*
_______________________
Earle Jones 
501 Portola Road #8008
Portola Valley CA 94028
Home: 650-424-4362
Cell: 650-269-0035
earle.jones@comcast.net

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1g

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:40 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Doris" untoldexpressions

Thanks for all the replies.

My computer is slow, lots of spinning balls. Genius bar told me updating to
10.8 would take care of that but it hasn't. I used to have a lot of free
space but no longer. I have 87.3 out of 249.2 GB. after deleting all my
data except for iTunes and iPhoto which I have on Time Machine on two
externals.

I thought I should remove all apps that I have downloaded and don't use or
don't know what they're for.

I'm ready to delete all music from my computer as everything I bought
should be in iCloud, right?I haven't figured that out yet. I used to be
able to grasp technical things better, but I have slowed down in my elder
years, so I am approaching this slowly.

My photos are the most important thing to me and I have 15,000 or so,
mostly family, so I don't want to lose them. Like I said they are backed up
to two externals.

My apple care has expired so I'm sort of on my own here.

My thinking right now is maybe I should start all over by reprogramming the
hard drive (word escapes me at the moment) which I think would be done in
Disk Utilities, re-installing 10.8 which I purchased through iTunes and
restoring iPhoto from Time Machine. Dos this sound reasonable, appropriate?

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks,

Doris

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 2:48 PM, N.A. Nada <whodo678@comcast.net> wrote:

> Looks like you have had some of these forever, too. But the ones below are
> either not from Apple or not visible.
>
> Doris, you can always Get Info on each app. Or depending on what you are
> trying to do and depending on which OS X you are using, use System
> Information/ Software to see if you have PowerPC apps, and are using 10.7
> or above, they will no longer work.
>
> Doris, what are you trying to accomplish?
>
>
> Bento is not native. It is from FileMaker, (which Apple does own, but is
> not part of Apple or the Mac OS X.)
> Feedback Assistant, I do not see it as a visible stand alone app.
> iToner, what is it? It is from Ambrosia Software, Inc.
> SMARTReporter is from corecode.at. (Opps! looks like time for an update,
> and maybe even a paid update.)
>
> And don't forget that Apple sometimes includes some of its software free
> with some models. Like the iLife or iWorks groups of apps. I also believe
> iWeb is end of life, and no longer available.
>
>
> To Earle, separating them into two files was Jim's suggestion. It helps in
> just this situation, especially when trying to troubleshoot a new problem
> or move to a new Mac. When Apple dropped Rosetta, it made it easier to make
> up a list of the apps I needed to check to see if I needed to update or
> find a replacement.
>
> And I am sure that he has found that separating them into two folders
> needs constant vigilance like my attempts at labeling them with colors.
> Many installers automatically put it in to the Apps folder, and or remove
> any label you might place on an app. With every new install or update, you
> have to check the folders. Heck, I have tried to keep an spreadsheet of the
> changes, installs, setting changes and mods I have made over the years to
> each Mac I have owned, and heaven knows it is incomplete.
>
> Brent
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2013, at 8:06 PM, Jim Saklad wrote:
>
> > Where can I find what applications are original to Apple and what I've
> downloaded. I'm afraid I did not keep any record and get a little
> download-happy at times.
>
> I put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones
> that come with the operating system.
>
> My best estimate of the native apps is:
>
> App Store.app
> Automator.app
> Bento.app
> Calculator.app
> Calendar.app
> Chess.app
> Contacts.app
> Dashboard.app
> Dictionary.app
> Display Menu.app
> DVD Player.app
> FaceTime.app
> Feedback Assistant.app
> Font Book.app
> Game Center.app
> Image Capture.app
> iMovie.app
> iPhoto.app
> iToner.app
> iTunes.app
> iWeb.app
> Launchpad.app
> Mail.app
> Messages.app
> Mission Control.app
> Notes.app
> Photo Booth.app
> Preview.app
> QuickTime Player.app
> Reminders.app
> Safari.app
> SMARTReporter.app
> Stickies.app
> System Preferences.app
> TextEdit.app
> Time Machine.app
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1h

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:45 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"OBrien" conorboru

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:06:16 -0400, Jim Saklad wrote:
> put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the
> ones that come with the operating system.

I've always done this, too.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

O'Brien ––– –... .-. .. . -.

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1i

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:10 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Ken" avliska

A question on how you do this. Any apps automatically load into the Application Folder, don't they? If that's true, can simply dragging the newly-loaded application to a separate folder from the Applications Folder move the entire application? I understood that there are pieces of software from applications that get scattered all over the place. At least, this was what I was told when trying to drag an application to the trash. I was told that wasn't sufficient to get the whole application moved. Thanks.
Ken S.

>
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:06:16 -0400, Jim Saklad wrote:
> > put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the
> > ones that come with the operating system.
>
> I've always done this, too.

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1j

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:51 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01

>>> ... put all my 3rd-party applications in a separate folder from the ones that come with the operating system.
>>
>> I've always done this, too.
>
> A question on how you do this. Any apps automatically load into the Application Folder, don't they?

No.

Installations fall into 2 broad categories:
1. a DMG or ZIP file unpacks into a folder or virtual disk with the application itself on it, and you drag-copy it onto your hard drive.
I simply copy it to my own chosen directory.

2. the download unpacks to an installer program, which puts the App and other files wherever the programmer wanted them to go.

Officially, Apple prefers applications to run equally well from any directory on your drive, and in general they should NOT *require* placement in ./Applications

> If that's true, can simply dragging the newly-loaded application to a separate folder from the Applications Folder move the entire application?

I think Apple's Application Programming Guidelines suggest that all the relevant needed files should be included with the executable app itself in a .app file. If the programmers follow those guidelines, then simply moving the "program.app" file to another location should work perfectly well.

If the programmer is used to working in Windows, all the subsidiary files may be distributed through numerous directories across the hard drive.

> I understood that there are pieces of software from applications that get scattered all over the place. At least, this was what I was told when trying to drag an application to the trash. I was told that wasn't sufficient to get the whole application moved.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

1k

Re: Original Applications

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:58 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01

> My computer is slow, lots of spinning balls. Genius bar told me updating to
> 10.8 would take care of that but it hasn't. I used to have a lot of free space but no longer. I have 87.3 out of 249.2 GB. after deleting all my data except for iTunes and iPhoto which I have on Time Machine on two externals.

1. 87.3 GB out of 249.2 GB is still a lot of free space.
2. What year, make, and model of Mac is this?
3. Have you tried running Disk Utility -- Verify Disk ?
4. Do you own any disk utility software besides what's built in to MacOS?

> I thought I should remove all apps that I have downloaded and don't use or don't know what they're for.

That couldn't hurt.

> I'm ready to delete all music from my computer as everything I bought
> should be in iCloud, right?

I wouldn't do that just yet.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (14) . Top ^

2a

Re: Another new Mac Pro sign

Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:19 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"T Hopkins" todhop

The comparison to the "mini" is not about size but modularity. There's no particular reason for a MacPro module to be the size of the current "mini" any more than an iPad "mini" is the same size as an iPad, but ultimately the future of the MacPro is likely small modular units and not a big, honking tower.

It's the magic of modularity. No need to pre-plan for the slots, power, and cooling for future expansion. Each module is designed to support only it's narrow needs, and to interconnect with any other. Scale as needed. Buy one 4 core module. Need more power, buy another, or two more, or four more and chain them. Need to drive a six monitor array, no problem, by a "multi-graphics module" or two. Want to build a server, add an i/o unit with four ethernet ports, four thunderbolt ports, and six USB3 ports.

It's like computer Legos!

Cheers,
tod

On Mar 24, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Denver Dan wrote:

> Howdy.
>
> A Mac Mini size stackable batch of modular Mac Pro-ish devices to
> create a tower is an on and off again rumor.
>
> However, this arrangement would in some ways be more complex than a
> standard tower configuration case due to the need to have separate
> modules (fan vented probably) for PCIe cards (like a card cage). In
> addition, you wold need to have external optical drive cases.
>
> Taken altogether the problems of venting, of cable connections, of what
> to do about video cards and which modular would have one and which not,
> issues with audio and USB and other connectivity ports, and space would
> seem to be rather difficult and the result a sort of awkward tower of
> Babel.
>
> Denver Dan
>
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:57:26 +0000, Otto Nikolaus wrote:
> > How about if those cases were Mac mini size? Too big (small) a step?
> >
> > Otto
> >
> > On 24 March 2013 23:47, Denver Dan <denver.dan@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Howdy.
> >>
> >> A modular stack of connectable cases has been rumored.
> >>
> >> However, you can achieve a similar result now with a card cage device
> >> to hold PCIe cards in a special external case.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (11) . Top ^

2b

Re: Another new Mac Pro sign

Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:32 am (PDT) . Posted by:

"Otto Nikolaus" nikyzf

And now, with Thunderbolt, it's feasible to connect them quickly and easily!

Otto

On 25 March 2013 15:19, T Hopkins <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

> The comparison to the "mini" is not about size but modularity. There's no
> particular reason for a MacPro module to be the size of the current "mini"
> any more than an iPad "mini" is the same size as an iPad, but ultimately
> the future of the MacPro is likely small modular units and not a big,
> honking tower.
>
> It's the magic of modularity. No need to pre-plan for the slots, power,
> and cooling for future expansion. Each module is designed to support only
> it's narrow needs, and to interconnect with any other. Scale as needed.
> Buy one 4 core module. Need more power, buy another, or two more, or four
> more and chain them. Need to drive a six monitor array, no problem, by a
> "multi-graphics module" or two. Want to build a server, add an i/o unit
> with four ethernet ports, four thunderbolt ports, and six USB3 ports.
>
> It's like computer Legos!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (11) . Top ^

2c

Re: Another new Mac Pro sign

Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:12 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"N.A. Nada"

I was also thinking of venting/heat issues. And the rat's nest of cables behind it also seem very un-Apple or un-Jony Ives. Not a clean, elegant design. And what length to make the cables?

Still and interesting possibility, that there has to be an elegant answer to.

Brent

On Mar 25, 2013, at 8:19 AM, T Hopkins wrote:

The comparison to the "mini" is not about size but modularity. There's no particular reason for a MacPro module to be the size of the current "mini" any more than an iPad "mini" is the same size as an iPad, but ultimately the future of the MacPro is likely small modular units and not a big, honking tower.

It's the magic of modularity. No need to pre-plan for the slots, power, and cooling for future expansion. Each module is designed to support only it's narrow needs, and to interconnect with any other. Scale as needed. Buy one 4 core module. Need more power, buy another, or two more, or four more and chain them. Need to drive a six monitor array, no problem, by a "multi-graphics module" or two. Want to build a server, add an i/o unit with four ethernet ports, four thunderbolt ports, and six USB3 ports.

It's like computer Legos!

Cheers,
tod

On Mar 24, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Denver Dan wrote:

> Howdy.
>
> A Mac Mini size stackable batch of modular Mac Pro-ish devices to
> create a tower is an on and off again rumor.
>
> However, this arrangement would in some ways be more complex than a
> standard tower configuration case due to the need to have separate
> modules (fan vented probably) for PCIe cards (like a card cage). In
> addition, you wold need to have external optical drive cases.
>
> Taken altogether the problems of venting, of cable connections, of what
> to do about video cards and which modular would have one and which not,
> issues with audio and USB and other connectivity ports, and space would
> seem to be rather difficult and the result a sort of awkward tower of
> Babel.
>
> Denver Dan
>
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 23:57:26 +0000, Otto Nikolaus wrote:
>> How about if those cases were Mac mini size? Too big (small) a step?
>>
>> Otto
>>
>> On 24 March 2013 23:47, Denver Dan <denver.dan@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy.
>>>
>>> A modular stack of connectable cases has been rumored.
>>>
>>> However, you can achieve a similar result now with a card cage device
>>> to hold PCIe cards in a special external case.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Group FAQ:
<http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>

Yahoo! Groups Links

Reply to sender . Reply to group . Reply via Web Post . All Messages (11) . Top ^

3 "Don't have permission"

Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:22 pm (PDT) . Posted by:

"Dave C" davec2468

I began a copy of an internal hard disk (about 250 GB) to a USB hard disk. The process began as you'd expect, except I was asked for the admin password. Not sure why this is required, but I provided it. The status window that appeared showed that it would take about 5 hours.

I came back after 2 hours and the status window showed a message: "The process you started cannot be completed because you do not have permission to access file abcd". (I don't remember the name but I do recall that it was a demo software app.)

The copy terminated with no option to skip this file and continue.

Before beginning this copy process I repaired permissions.

(See Console output, below.)

(Let's please not go into whether or not Finder is the appropriate app to use for large file copying...)

1. Is this what Finder always does when it encounters an issue with permission? Just throw up its hands and quit the copy?

2. I am logged in as the only user, the Admin. Why would I not have permission?

Both source and destination volumes are fine -- no issues with reading or writing other than this one experience. The destination volume is empty and 3x the size of the data to be copied.

In the past I've copied copious numbers of files without issue. Why can't I do this?

Observations? Ideas?

Thanks,
Dave

- - -

console output:
---
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 33
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 32
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 29
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 28
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 27
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 26
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 25
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a com.apple.notifyd[12]: EV_DELETE failed for file watcher 31
Mar 25 16:18:42 cansf7skya5493a UnmountAssistant[2186]: Volume unmounted successfully
---

OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
2011 Mini 2.7 GHz dual i7 / 16 GB / 250 GB & 750 GB

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]