15 New Messages
Digest #9688
1b
Re: Replacing my Comcast internet/voice access point, moving up to 8 by "James Robertson" jamesrob328i
1c
Re: Replacing my Comcast internet/voice access point, moving up to 8 by "Michael Stupinski" mstupinski
Messages
Mon Aug 5, 2013 9:05 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Pat Taylor" pat412255
Yes, I do get voice service from Comcast. My self-installed modem has an empty slot for the battery which was not included in the new modem box. I foolishly went back to the local office because I thought the battery had accidentally been omitted in packaging! Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 8:38 AM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.net > wrote:
> Do you get voice service from Comcast? If so, did they require you to pay for battery backup for your access device (which is buried inside my current device)?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On Aug 5, 2013, at 8:38 AM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.
> Do you get voice service from Comcast? If so, did they require you to pay for battery backup for your access device (which is buried inside my current device)?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 9:55 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"James Robertson" jamesrob328i
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor <pat412@mac.com> wrote:
> Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
The oft-suggested "need" for battery backup for voice services is to keep voice 911 (actually "e911"
I'm pretty sure I didn't have to pay for a backup battery when I became a Comcast subscriber. It irks me that they expect me to pay for it now.
--
Jim Robertson
__o
_-\<,
(*)/ (*)
````````````
My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
Mon Aug 5, 2013 10:42 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Michael Stupinski" mstupinski
I had my Comcast cable service switched to TV + internet + phone late last year. I never even thought about a battery until I got an email saying their system had detected that either my battery was missing or it had been depleted. I called the number provided in the email and determined that I had no battery installed. They told me that Comcast had changed its policy early this year from providing a free battery to requiring purchase (at about $35, if I recall correctly). When I told them when my modem had been installed, they said I should have received a battery free, because that was prior to the policy change. They sent one free, but I paid the shipping charge.
About three months later I received an email from Comcast saying (you guessed it) that my battery was either missing or had been depleted! I called them and (I confess) went ballistic, telling them they had apparently found a new income stream, since the battery is only warranted for a year, and asked just HOW their system had detected a problem with my battery. No answer was provided, and my battery continues to show that it is OK (the modem 'battery' light remains illuminated). All heck will break loose if it "depletes"; within the warranty, or even somewhat past it, for that matter.
Recently I have also determined that the online log of my phone calls shows the call times as if they were U.S. Mountain Time, although I'm in the Eastern Zone. It also shows some "Answered Calls" that actually were never answered (nor, after checking with the "callers", ever made). Finally, I'm not happy with the fact that when I tried to block a couple of very frequent "robo" calls, I was informed that the numbers, (860)059-4744 and (860) 000-0000, were "not valid numbers" and therefore could not be blocked! I would think that if Comcast's system could determine that the numbers were not valid it would be a trivial matter to block them. (And yes, my phone numbers are, and have been, on the Do Not Call list.)
The friendly and helpful lady who answered my call promised to do all she could to get to the bottom of the problems in the preceding paragraph, and I'll report any success here.
Sorry for the rant, but it's been that kind of day.
..........Mike
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:54 PM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.net > wrote:
>
> On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor <pat412@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
>
> The oft-suggested "need" for battery backup for voice services is to keep voice 911 (actually "e911") services available with location finder by phone number available in the event of a power outage.
>
> I'm pretty sure I didn't have to pay for a backup battery when I became a Comcast subscriber. It irks me that they expect me to pay for it now.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Robertson
> __o
> _-\<,_
> (*)/ (*)
> ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
> My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/macsupportcentral/files/faq.htm >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
About three months later I received an email from Comcast saying (you guessed it) that my battery was either missing or had been depleted! I called them and (I confess) went ballistic, telling them they had apparently found a new income stream, since the battery is only warranted for a year, and asked just HOW their system had detected a problem with my battery. No answer was provided, and my battery continues to show that it is OK (the modem 'battery&#
Recently I have also determined that the online log of my phone calls shows the call times as if they were U.S. Mountain Time, although I'm in the Eastern Zone. It also shows some "Answered Calls" that actually were never answered (nor, after checking with the "callers"
The friendly and helpful lady who answered my call promised to do all she could to get to the bottom of the problems in the preceding paragraph, and I'll report any success here.
Sorry for the rant, but it's been that kind of day.
..........Mike
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:54 PM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.
>
> On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor <pat412@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
>
> The oft-suggested "need" for battery backup for voice services is to keep voice 911 (actually "e911"
>
> I'm pretty sure I didn't have to pay for a backup battery when I became a Comcast subscriber. It irks me that they expect me to pay for it now.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Robertson
> __o
> _-\<,
> (*)/ (*)
> ````````````
> My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
>
>
>
> ------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://tech.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Mon Aug 5, 2013 11:10 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
I'm sorry, but I disagree.
What you have described, "The box interfacing the local LAN to the Internet could have a coax WAN connection to the internet," is a bridge, it is not a router. Only in the farthest stretch could it be called a router.
And if such an animal did exist, Comcast would not use it. It wants _cheap_, easily obtainable, mass-producted commodity hardware, not unicorns.
Just my 2 cents.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:11 AM, James Robertson wrote:
On Aug 4, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Jim Saklad <jimdoc@icloud.com > wrote:
> If it is also a wired router, then it will have a cable connection and multiple ethernet connections. If it only has one ethernet connection, it isn't a router.
That may be true as far as what's actually on the market, but it's not correct as far as definition of function is concerned. The box interfacing the local LAN to the Internet could have a coax WAN connection to the internet, be capable of routing traffic on the local LAN, but NOT have more than one Ethernet port, requiring the user to purchase an Ethernet switch or hub for that purpose. Most routers come with a few Ethernet LAN ports, of course.
--
Jim Robertson
__o
_-\<,_
(*)/ (*)
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What you have described, "The box interfacing the local LAN to the Internet could have a coax WAN connection to the internet," is a bridge, it is not a router. Only in the farthest stretch could it be called a router.
And if such an animal did exist, Comcast would not use it. It wants _cheap_, easily obtainable, mass-producted commodity hardware, not unicorns.
Just my 2 cents.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:11 AM, James Robertson wrote:
On Aug 4, 2013, at 8:37 AM, Jim Saklad <jimdoc@icloud.
> If it is also a wired router, then it will have a cable connection and multiple ethernet connections. If it only has one ethernet connection, it isn't a router.
That may be true as far as what's actually on the market, but it's not correct as far as definition of function is concerned. The box interfacing the local LAN to the Internet could have a coax WAN connection to the internet, be capable of routing traffic on the local LAN, but NOT have more than one Ethernet port, requiring the user to purchase an Ethernet switch or hub for that purpose. Most routers come with a few Ethernet LAN ports, of course.
--
Jim Robertson
__o
_-\<,
(*)/ (*)
````````````
My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:48 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
When the time does come due to replace it, I would check a local battery shop, like Batteries Plus.
I would think that they could block such bogus phone numbers, also. I hope you still report them to DoNotCal.gov, especially if they re repeats. Talk to them get some info from them then tell them not to call again. If you don't use the complaint forms the feds will never go after them.
I have never trusted any telephone company on their billing. I have caught the POTS adding calls to a butcher shop in Texas, but I live in Oregon. I had provided an employee with a pre-paid phone, and found they had added $200 in calls to his account when I asked him about how fast he was going through the cards I was giving him.
That I an I don't trust the cable companies on their bills, either.
I would love to hear that she got back to you and fixed the problem.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Michael Stupinski wrote:
I<snip>
They told me that Comcast had changed its policy early this year from providing a free battery to requiring purchase (at about $35, if I recall correctly). When I told them when my modem had been installed, they said I should have received a battery free, because that was prior to the policy change. They sent one free, but I paid the shipping charge.
<snip>
Recently I have also determined that the online log of my phone calls shows the call times as if they were U.S. Mountain Time, although I'm in the Eastern Zone. It also shows some "Answered Calls" that actually were never answered (nor, after checking with the "callers", ever made). Finally, I'm not happy with the fact that when I tried to block a couple of very frequent "robo" calls, I was informed that the numbers, (860)059-4744 and (860) 000-0000, were "not valid numbers" and therefore could not be blocked! I would think that if Comcast's system could determine that the numbers were not valid it would be a trivial matter to block them. (And yes, my phone numbers are, and have been, on the Do Not Call list.)
The friendly and helpful lady who answered my call promised to do all she could to get to the bottom of the problems in the preceding paragraph, and I'll report any success here.
Sorry for the rant, but it's been that kind of day.
..........Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would think that they could block such bogus phone numbers, also. I hope you still report them to DoNotCal.gov, especially if they re repeats. Talk to them get some info from them then tell them not to call again. If you don't use the complaint forms the feds will never go after them.
I have never trusted any telephone company on their billing. I have caught the POTS adding calls to a butcher shop in Texas, but I live in Oregon. I had provided an employee with a pre-paid phone, and found they had added $200 in calls to his account when I asked him about how fast he was going through the cards I was giving him.
That I an I don't trust the cable companies on their bills, either.
I would love to hear that she got back to you and fixed the problem.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 10:42 AM, Michael Stupinski wrote:
I<snip>
They told me that Comcast had changed its policy early this year from providing a free battery to requiring purchase (at about $35, if I recall correctly). When I told them when my modem had been installed, they said I should have received a battery free, because that was prior to the policy change. They sent one free, but I paid the shipping charge.
<snip>
Recently I have also determined that the online log of my phone calls shows the call times as if they were U.S. Mountain Time, although I'm in the Eastern Zone. It also shows some "Answered Calls" that actually were never answered (nor, after checking with the "callers"
The friendly and helpful lady who answered my call promised to do all she could to get to the bottom of the problems in the preceding paragraph, and I'll report any success here.
Sorry for the rant, but it's been that kind of day.
..........Mike
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:49 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
I was doubtful E911 worked with VOIP, but I did find it on the Comcast site.
I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that the charge for the battery was buried in your first bill, or not itemized. That and practices change. When you get to your Comcast box, check if there is a battery installed.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:54 AM, James Robertson wrote:
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor <pat412@mac.com> wrote:
> Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
The oft-suggested "need" for battery backup for voice services is to keep voice 911 (actually "e911") services available with location finder by phone number available in the event of a power outage.
I'm pretty sure I didn't have to pay for a backup battery when I became a Comcast subscriber. It irks me that they expect me to pay for it now.
--
Jim Robertson
__o
_-\<,_
(*)/ (*)
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````
My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll bet you a dollar to a donut that the charge for the battery was buried in your first bill, or not itemized. That and practices change. When you get to your Comcast box, check if there is a battery installed.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:54 AM, James Robertson wrote:
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor <pat412@mac.com> wrote:
> Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
The oft-suggested "need" for battery backup for voice services is to keep voice 911 (actually "e911"
I'm pretty sure I didn't have to pay for a backup battery when I became a Comcast subscriber. It irks me that they expect me to pay for it now.
--
Jim Robertson
__o
_-\<,
(*)/ (*)
````````````
My other car is an S-Works Roubaix
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:49 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
Yeah, that is a dirty little secret that is coming to life.
Land line service, the batteries are at the switching office and required by federal regulation to be provided by the POTS.
Cellular, the providers were told before Hurricane Sandy to increase the size of their batteries at the cell towers. There are regulations, but they omitted what level of battery backup was to be provided. The providers drug their feet.
VOIP does not have that regulation, and so was pushed off onto the consumer. And of course the notice is buried in the fine print. It has come to the attention of some users, because their low battery signals have started to go off, if they have a battery. After they found hour they had to pay for replacements, it started to hit the news services.
That is probably why it was mentioned this go around, Jim, when you spoke to them.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor wrote:
Yes, I do get voice service from Comcast. My self-installed modem has an empty slot for the battery which was not included in the new modem box. I foolishly went back to the local office because I thought the battery had accidentally been omitted in packaging! Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 8:38 AM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.net > wrote:
> Do you get voice service from Comcast? If so, did they require you to pay for battery backup for your access device (which is buried inside my current device)?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Land line service, the batteries are at the switching office and required by federal regulation to be provided by the POTS.
Cellular, the providers were told before Hurricane Sandy to increase the size of their batteries at the cell towers. There are regulations, but they omitted what level of battery backup was to be provided. The providers drug their feet.
VOIP does not have that regulation, and so was pushed off onto the consumer. And of course the notice is buried in the fine print. It has come to the attention of some users, because their low battery signals have started to go off, if they have a battery. After they found hour they had to pay for replacements, it started to hit the news services.
That is probably why it was mentioned this go around, Jim, when you spoke to them.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 9:05 AM, Pat Taylor wrote:
Yes, I do get voice service from Comcast. My self-installed modem has an empty slot for the battery which was not included in the new modem box. I foolishly went back to the local office because I thought the battery had accidentally been omitted in packaging! Their rep gave me a phone number to call to order & pay for the battery. I haven't bought one because my cell service can fill that bill.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 8:38 AM, James Robertson <jamesrob@sonic.
> Do you get voice service from Comcast? If so, did they require you to pay for battery backup for your access device (which is buried inside my current device)?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 9:42 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Jim Saklad" jimdoc01
> I am moving files from the Mac filesystem to the cloud storage and between the cloud storage systems themselves.
>
> I have not found good clean easy ways to move files from Mac to say Dropbox
> folder. Drag and drop was not working. And copying is supported but not move. Cut works but paste is not an option into a dropbox folder.
>
> I was using Finder Window should I be using a different part of Mac to do that level of file management.
I have been really fond of dual-pane file utilities since I discovered them on the Amiga around 1986.
XFolders was nice, but it was designed back in the PPC days, and while it runs and appears to work under 10.8.4, it is unsupported and hasn't been updated in years.
I have just found:
TotalFinder is a Finder tweak that improves a number of things, including allowing a 2-pane file finder:
<http://totalfinder.binaryage.com >
Xtrafinder is a different Finder tweak:
<http://www.trankynam.com/xtrafinder/ >
DoubleCommander is a free-standing separate App from SourceForge similar to Midnight Commander:
<http://doublecmd.sourceforge.net >
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.com
>
> I have not found good clean easy ways to move files from Mac to say Dropbox
> folder. Drag and drop was not working. And copying is supported but not move. Cut works but paste is not an option into a dropbox folder.
>
> I was using Finder Window should I be using a different part of Mac to do that level of file management.
I have been really fond of dual-pane file utilities since I discovered them on the Amiga around 1986.
XFolders was nice, but it was designed back in the PPC days, and while it runs and appears to work under 10.8.4, it is unsupported and hasn't been updated in years.
I have just found:
TotalFinder is a Finder tweak that improves a number of things, including allowing a 2-pane file finder:
<http://totalfinder.
Xtrafinder is a different Finder tweak:
<http://www.trankyna
DoubleCommander is a free-standing separate App from SourceForge similar to Midnight Commander:
<http://doublecmd.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jim Saklad mailto:jimdoc@icloud.
Mon Aug 5, 2013 10:56 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
Gentlemen,
if you will notice Dave is running 10.6.8 on a 2011 Mac mini, whose original OS was 10.7.0 or 10.7.2. He is running a OS prior to the original that came on his Mini. In the past, this was not possible. How he is doing it, he has not shared with us.
So not only is he running a long in the tooth email app that requires Rosetta, but he is running them on a Mac that should not be able to do this.
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:18 AM, Dave C wrote:
Hi Randy,
I did the maintenance on my Snow Leopard startup disk and a couple of things needed fixing. Upon restarting things seemed noticeably speedier. But Eudora and AppleWorks are unchanged ... not slow so much as hesitant in some tasks.
When searching in Eudora, the Find window opens and I select mailboxes by click-and-drag. When I let up on the mouse button the dotted select rectangle remains "stuck" to the cursor until... it goes away some seconds later. I then click in the text field to enter search criteria and the blinking bar cursor does not appear... for several seconds. Then I can enter terms and click Search. The cursor is responsive during this time; it isn't a "freeze".
Similar odd hesitances occur in AppleWorks. No other applications are affected. This is a relatively recent event -- until this summer(?) Eudora and AW worked as expected.
As there seems to be no negatives associated with reinstalling Rosetta I think that will be my next step (as soon as I can find the install disc...)
Thanks,
Dave
OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
2011 Mini 2.7 GHz dual i7 / 16 GB / 250 GB & 750 GB
-=-=-=-
On Aug 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
> On Aug 4, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Dave C wrote:
>
>> Is it straightforward to install Rosetta again? My Rosetta apps (Eudora & AppleWorks) are very sluggish. And yes, I've checked the "Recent Items" folders in AW. It's not that. It's also in Eudora.
>
> Rosetta is very processor intensive. I'm willing to bet that reinstalling Rosetta won't help with performance. My guess is that something is impacting performance overall on your Macintosh, and that it is just most noticeable when Rosetta is running.
>
> Instead, I would run all of the suggested routine maintenance for OS X and see if that helps.
>
> If that doesn't help, I would use Activity Monitor to figure out what is hogging CPU cycles on your Mac.
>
> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>
> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
> http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
> ___________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/macsupportcentral/files/faq.htm >
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
if you will notice Dave is running 10.6.8 on a 2011 Mac mini, whose original OS was 10.7.0 or 10.7.2. He is running a OS prior to the original that came on his Mini. In the past, this was not possible. How he is doing it, he has not shared with us.
So not only is he running a long in the tooth email app that requires Rosetta, but he is running them on a Mac that should not be able to do this.
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:18 AM, Dave C wrote:
Hi Randy,
I did the maintenance on my Snow Leopard startup disk and a couple of things needed fixing. Upon restarting things seemed noticeably speedier. But Eudora and AppleWorks are unchanged ... not slow so much as hesitant in some tasks.
When searching in Eudora, the Find window opens and I select mailboxes by click-and-drag. When I let up on the mouse button the dotted select rectangle remains "stuck" to the cursor until... it goes away some seconds later. I then click in the text field to enter search criteria and the blinking bar cursor does not appear... for several seconds. Then I can enter terms and click Search. The cursor is responsive during this time; it isn't a "freeze"
Similar odd hesitances occur in AppleWorks. No other applications are affected. This is a relatively recent event -- until this summer(?) Eudora and AW worked as expected.
As there seems to be no negatives associated with reinstalling Rosetta I think that will be my next step (as soon as I can find the install disc...)
Thanks,
Dave
OS X 10.6.8 Snow Leopard
2011 Mini 2.7 GHz dual i7 / 16 GB / 250 GB & 750 GB
-=-=-=-
On Aug 4, 2013, at 10:57 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
> On Aug 4, 2013, at 2:40 PM, Dave C wrote:
>
>> Is it straightforward to install Rosetta again? My Rosetta apps (Eudora & AppleWorks) are very sluggish. And yes, I've checked the "Recent Items" folders in AW. It's not that. It's also in Eudora.
>
> Rosetta is very processor intensive. I'm willing to bet that reinstalling Rosetta won't help with performance. My guess is that something is impacting performance overall on your Macintosh, and that it is just most noticeable when Rosetta is running.
>
> Instead, I would run all of the suggested routine maintenance for OS X and see if that helps.
>
> If that doesn't help, I would use Activity Monitor to figure out what is hogging CPU cycles on your Mac.
>
> ____________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)
>
> Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
> http://www.macattor
> ____________
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://tech.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:11 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Dave C" davec2468
Brent,
Please do not make such suppositions without personal experience. Many others are running this combination without such issue.
And please address answers to my questions to me. And if you cannot answer the question, well...
Best,
Dave
Sent from my phone.
Please forgive auto-fill errors and typos.
On 5 Aug 2013, at 10:56 AM, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@comcast.net > wrote:
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Please do not make such suppositions without personal experience. Many others are running this combination without such issue.
And please address answers to my questions to me. And if you cannot answer the question, well...
Best,
Dave
Sent from my phone.
Please forgive auto-fill errors and typos.
On 5 Aug 2013, at 10:56 AM, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@comcast.
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:35 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
What suppositions?
If you are speaking of you running 10.6.8 on your 2011 Mini, I was reminding the group of a possible additional difference in your set up, and suggesting that might be the issue.
You have not indicated how you are running an OS prior to the Original that came with your Mac. And I have heard rumors of others doing it. But that is all I have heard or read of this, rumors. You are the only one that I have met that says he is doing it. Is there a list I could join to learn more about it?
You seem to have multiple issues and my first guess, is the OS you are running on your 2011 Mini.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Dave C wrote:
Brent,
Please do not make such suppositions without personal experience. Many others are running this combination without such issue.
And please address answers to my questions to me. And if you cannot answer the question, well...
Best,
Dave
Sent from my phone.
Please forgive auto-fill errors and typos.
On 5 Aug 2013, at 10:56 AM, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@comcast.net > wrote:
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you are speaking of you running 10.6.8 on your 2011 Mini, I was reminding the group of a possible additional difference in your set up, and suggesting that might be the issue.
You have not indicated how you are running an OS prior to the Original that came with your Mac. And I have heard rumors of others doing it. But that is all I have heard or read of this, rumors. You are the only one that I have met that says he is doing it. Is there a list I could join to learn more about it?
You seem to have multiple issues and my first guess, is the OS you are running on your 2011 Mini.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Dave C wrote:
Brent,
Please do not make such suppositions without personal experience. Many others are running this combination without such issue.
And please address answers to my questions to me. And if you cannot answer the question, well...
Best,
Dave
Sent from my phone.
Please forgive auto-fill errors and typos.
On 5 Aug 2013, at 10:56 AM, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@comcast.
I am happy that he is able to do this, but to expect it to run smoothly and swiftly should not be one of his expectations.
Brent
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:15 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
Make sure the iMac is set up to sync the contacts, either in iTunes _or_ iCloud.
Ditto on what Jim said, duplicates are often caused by suing more than one method to sync.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 7:45 AM, ennisart wrote:
I am using icloud for my iPhone4 and iMac to sync.
Is it best to enter new data on the icloud rather than the iMac? Data doesn't seem to update to the cloud/iphone if I enter it on the iMac address book.
What causes address cards to duplicate?
Thanks.
John
iMac 2008 OS 10.8.4
iphone4 iOS6.1.3
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ditto on what Jim said, duplicates are often caused by suing more than one method to sync.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 7:45 AM, ennisart wrote:
I am using icloud for my iPhone4 and iMac to sync.
Is it best to enter new data on the icloud rather than the iMac? Data doesn't seem to update to the cloud/iphone if I enter it on the iMac address book.
What causes address cards to duplicate?
Thanks.
John
iMac 2008 OS 10.8.4
iphone4 iOS6.1.3
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:17 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Patsy Price" beyondwords2
>Sounds like an old fashioned BBS.
Really? I no longer remember the BBSs I used to participate in. The
Freecycle Network is about keeping tangible items out of the
landfill. It's somewhat like a collection of specialized
Yahoo/Kijiji/Craigslist groups, with millions of members, thousands
of volunteers, servers around the world, and posting/viewing/replying
(offers & wanteds--100% free) via website or email. And a handy set
of specialized web-based moderator tools. All on a shoestring budget.
But all that's off topic for a Mac support list.
>So why do you need to spoof, just use your e-ddress and include a
>signature that says you are a moderator. Or add a line saying that
>you are putting on your moderator's hat on. No biggie. KISS
Can do. I guess I saw this as somewhat like what I used to do, when I
did emailings for clients and used their e-address when sending from
my Mac with Eudora --the recipients didn't see my own e-address.
Our goal: We want to keep our moderators in the loop for multiple
reasons, so we want all mods to receive a copy of all email between
individual mods and individual members. We're just looking for ways
to facilitate that.
Maybe all we need to be concerned about is the reply-to address. Yes,
each moderator can use their own e-address when sending email to a
member, and just cc the rest of the mod team as we have been doing.
When a member replies to me as moderator, because I'm using the mod
address as my reply-to address, their reply automatically gets
forwarded to all the mods. But now when a member replies to any other
mod, their reply goes just to that mod. And then that mod has to
remember to forward the reply to the rest of the mod team.
So, let me ask a different question. Will it be possible for our
other lead moderator, who does email on both her iPhone and her new
iMac (flavour unknown), to set up an account/personality/whatever
with an email address used only for Freecycle and
Calgary@mods.freecycle.org as the reply-to address? And will it work
with either her .me.com address or her hotmail address?
Once she's up and running, we can figure out what will work for the
other moderators and their setups.
Patsy
happily unfamiliar with smartphones of any type
quite attached to my Eudora on 10.6.8
Brent wrote:
>>Why don't you just create the email account on your iPhone?
>>
>>You have the e-ddress and password, you just need to set up the
>>account on the iPhone, no spoofing needed.
>>
>>Keep It Simple, Sam, don't make it complicated.
>
On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>I'm hoping it will be simple, but maybe not that simple.
>
>Our Freecycle mod address doesn't have a password. Mail to our mod
>address is forwarded by freecycle.org to the email address of record
>for each of the group's moderators.
I had written:
>>Is it possible/easy to spoof an email address on an iPhone? in Mail?
>>
>>I just want a general reply now. Later I can ask for details to pass
>>on to somebody else.
>>
>>Background: I'm a lead moderator of our local Freecycle group with
>>more than 8,000 members and lots of email to manage. In Eudora (on my
>>iMac with OS 10.6.8) I have set up one personality with our mod team
>>address. So when I put on my moderator hat and send email to a member
>>it looks like the mail is going out from the mod team address. And
>>the reply-to address is the mod team address, so the member replies
>>go to the whole team, not just me.
>>
>>It would be nice if other members of the mod team could do the same
>>with whatever OS/email program/ISP they are using. We'll start with
>>one, our other lead moderator.
>>
>>She uses an iPhone. And she has just replaced her Windows machine
>>with some flavour of iMac (she hasn't yet answered my question about
>>model, OS, etc.). Her email addresses are hotmail and me.com. That's
>>about all I know so far.
>>
>>Would it be possible/easy for her to spoof the mod team email address?
Really? I no longer remember the BBSs I used to participate in. The
Freecycle Network is about keeping tangible items out of the
landfill. It's somewhat like a collection of specialized
Yahoo/Kijiji/
of volunteers, servers around the world, and posting/viewing/
(offers & wanteds--100% free) via website or email. And a handy set
of specialized web-based moderator tools. All on a shoestring budget.
But all that's off topic for a Mac support list.
>So why do you need to spoof, just use your e-ddress and include a
>signature that says you are a moderator. Or add a line saying that
>you are putting on your moderator'
Can do. I guess I saw this as somewhat like what I used to do, when I
did emailings for clients and used their e-address when sending from
my Mac with Eudora --the recipients didn't see my own e-address.
Our goal: We want to keep our moderators in the loop for multiple
reasons, so we want all mods to receive a copy of all email between
individual mods and individual members. We're just looking for ways
to facilitate that.
Maybe all we need to be concerned about is the reply-to address. Yes,
each moderator can use their own e-address when sending email to a
member, and just cc the rest of the mod team as we have been doing.
When a member replies to me as moderator, because I'm using the mod
address as my reply-to address, their reply automatically gets
forwarded to all the mods. But now when a member replies to any other
mod, their reply goes just to that mod. And then that mod has to
remember to forward the reply to the rest of the mod team.
So, let me ask a different question. Will it be possible for our
other lead moderator, who does email on both her iPhone and her new
iMac (flavour unknown), to set up an account/personality
with an email address used only for Freecycle and
Calgary@mods.
with either her .me.com address or her hotmail address?
Once she's up and running, we can figure out what will work for the
other moderators and their setups.
Patsy
happily unfamiliar with smartphones of any type
quite attached to my Eudora on 10.6.8
Brent wrote:
>>Why don't you just create the email account on your iPhone?
>>
>>You have the e-ddress and password, you just need to set up the
>>account on the iPhone, no spoofing needed.
>>
>>Keep It Simple, Sam, don't make it complicated.
>
On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>I'm hoping it will be simple, but maybe not that simple.
>
>Our Freecycle mod address doesn't have a password. Mail to our mod
>address is forwarded by freecycle.org to the email address of record
>for each of the group's moderators.
I had written:
>>Is it possible/easy to spoof an email address on an iPhone? in Mail?
>>
>>I just want a general reply now. Later I can ask for details to pass
>>on to somebody else.
>>
>>Background: I'm a lead moderator of our local Freecycle group with
>>more than 8,000 members and lots of email to manage. In Eudora (on my
>>iMac with OS 10.6.8) I have set up one personality with our mod team
>>address. So when I put on my moderator hat and send email to a member
>>it looks like the mail is going out from the mod team address. And
>>the reply-to address is the mod team address, so the member replies
>>go to the whole team, not just me.
>>
>>It would be nice if other members of the mod team could do the same
>>with whatever OS/email program/ISP they are using. We'll start with
>>one, our other lead moderator.
>>
>>She uses an iPhone. And she has just replaced her Windows machine
>>with some flavour of iMac (she hasn't yet answered my question about
>>model, OS, etc.). Her email addresses are hotmail and me.com. That's
>>about all I know so far.
>>
>>Would it be possible/easy for her to spoof the mod team email address?
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:48 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
Thanks for the clarification, I was thinking bi-cycling, not repurposing. I will have to look into your group.
I have not moderated a list, so others may be better able to answer your questions.
As a non-moderator, I am not comfortable with anyone spoofing an e-ddress. That aside, and the fact that Eudora is pretty much toast, I would think that you could set up and account on any Apple device, Mac or iDevice, to send and receive. I have no problem with you continuing to use Eudora and 10.6.8, but just remember you have chosen this.
As to having to add a forward, since the replies are to a member and that changes each time, you either have to sent it BCC to the moderators and add the single member, or send it to the single member and BCC to a moderator group (you would have to create) or make a single e-ddress that all moderators use. I see either having to remember or other problems with all of those options.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>Sounds like an old fashioned BBS.
Really? I no longer remember the BBSs I used to participate in. The
Freecycle Network is about keeping tangible items out of the
landfill. It's somewhat like a collection of specialized
Yahoo/Kijiji/Craigslist groups, with millions of members, thousands
of volunteers, servers around the world, and posting/viewing/replying
(offers & wanteds--100% free) via website or email. And a handy set
of specialized web-based moderator tools. All on a shoestring budget.
But all that's off topic for a Mac support list.
>So why do you need to spoof, just use your e-ddress and include a
>signature that says you are a moderator. Or add a line saying that
>you are putting on your moderator's hat on. No biggie. KISS
Can do. I guess I saw this as somewhat like what I used to do, when I
did emailings for clients and used their e-address when sending from
my Mac with Eudora --the recipients didn't see my own e-address.
Our goal: We want to keep our moderators in the loop for multiple
reasons, so we want all mods to receive a copy of all email between
individual mods and individual members. We're just looking for ways
to facilitate that.
Maybe all we need to be concerned about is the reply-to address. Yes,
each moderator can use their own e-address when sending email to a
member, and just cc the rest of the mod team as we have been doing.
When a member replies to me as moderator, because I'm using the mod
address as my reply-to address, their reply automatically gets
forwarded to all the mods. But now when a member replies to any other
mod, their reply goes just to that mod. And then that mod has to
remember to forward the reply to the rest of the mod team.
So, let me ask a different question. Will it be possible for our
other lead moderator, who does email on both her iPhone and her new
iMac (flavour unknown), to set up an account/personality/whatever
with an email address used only for Freecycle and
Calgary@mods.freecycle.org as the reply-to address? And will it work
with either her .me.com address or her hotmail address?
Once she's up and running, we can figure out what will work for the
other moderators and their setups.
Patsy
happily unfamiliar with smartphones of any type
quite attached to my Eudora on 10.6.8
Brent wrote:
>>Why don't you just create the email account on your iPhone?
>>
>>You have the e-ddress and password, you just need to set up the
>>account on the iPhone, no spoofing needed.
>>
>>Keep It Simple, Sam, don't make it complicated.
>
On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>I'm hoping it will be simple, but maybe not that simple.
>
>Our Freecycle mod address doesn't have a password. Mail to our mod
>address is forwarded by freecycle.org to the email address of record
>for each of the group's moderators.
I had written:
>>Is it possible/easy to spoof an email address on an iPhone? in Mail?
>>
>>I just want a general reply now. Later I can ask for details to pass
>>on to somebody else.
>>
>>Background: I'm a lead moderator of our local Freecycle group with
>>more than 8,000 members and lots of email to manage. In Eudora (on my
>>iMac with OS 10.6.8) I have set up one personality with our mod team
>>address. So when I put on my moderator hat and send email to a member
>>it looks like the mail is going out from the mod team address. And
>>the reply-to address is the mod team address, so the member replies
>>go to the whole team, not just me.
>>
>>It would be nice if other members of the mod team could do the same
>>with whatever OS/email program/ISP they are using. We'll start with
>>one, our other lead moderator.
>>
>>She uses an iPhone. And she has just replaced her Windows machine
>>with some flavour of iMac (she hasn't yet answered my question about
>>model, OS, etc.). Her email addresses are hotmail and me.com. That's
>>about all I know so far.
>>
>>Would it be possible/easy for her to spoof the mod team email address?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have not moderated a list, so others may be better able to answer your questions.
As a non-moderator, I am not comfortable with anyone spoofing an e-ddress. That aside, and the fact that Eudora is pretty much toast, I would think that you could set up and account on any Apple device, Mac or iDevice, to send and receive. I have no problem with you continuing to use Eudora and 10.6.8, but just remember you have chosen this.
As to having to add a forward, since the replies are to a member and that changes each time, you either have to sent it BCC to the moderators and add the single member, or send it to the single member and BCC to a moderator group (you would have to create) or make a single e-ddress that all moderators use. I see either having to remember or other problems with all of those options.
Brent
On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:17 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>Sounds like an old fashioned BBS.
Really? I no longer remember the BBSs I used to participate in. The
Freecycle Network is about keeping tangible items out of the
landfill. It's somewhat like a collection of specialized
Yahoo/Kijiji/
of volunteers, servers around the world, and posting/viewing/
(offers & wanteds--100% free) via website or email. And a handy set
of specialized web-based moderator tools. All on a shoestring budget.
But all that's off topic for a Mac support list.
>So why do you need to spoof, just use your e-ddress and include a
>signature that says you are a moderator. Or add a line saying that
>you are putting on your moderator'
Can do. I guess I saw this as somewhat like what I used to do, when I
did emailings for clients and used their e-address when sending from
my Mac with Eudora --the recipients didn't see my own e-address.
Our goal: We want to keep our moderators in the loop for multiple
reasons, so we want all mods to receive a copy of all email between
individual mods and individual members. We're just looking for ways
to facilitate that.
Maybe all we need to be concerned about is the reply-to address. Yes,
each moderator can use their own e-address when sending email to a
member, and just cc the rest of the mod team as we have been doing.
When a member replies to me as moderator, because I'm using the mod
address as my reply-to address, their reply automatically gets
forwarded to all the mods. But now when a member replies to any other
mod, their reply goes just to that mod. And then that mod has to
remember to forward the reply to the rest of the mod team.
So, let me ask a different question. Will it be possible for our
other lead moderator, who does email on both her iPhone and her new
iMac (flavour unknown), to set up an account/personality
with an email address used only for Freecycle and
Calgary@mods.
with either her .me.com address or her hotmail address?
Once she's up and running, we can figure out what will work for the
other moderators and their setups.
Patsy
happily unfamiliar with smartphones of any type
quite attached to my Eudora on 10.6.8
Brent wrote:
>>Why don't you just create the email account on your iPhone?
>>
>>You have the e-ddress and password, you just need to set up the
>>account on the iPhone, no spoofing needed.
>>
>>Keep It Simple, Sam, don't make it complicated.
>
On Aug 4, 2013, at 4:09 PM, Patsy Price wrote:
>I'm hoping it will be simple, but maybe not that simple.
>
>Our Freecycle mod address doesn't have a password. Mail to our mod
>address is forwarded by freecycle.org to the email address of record
>for each of the group's moderators.
I had written:
>>Is it possible/easy to spoof an email address on an iPhone? in Mail?
>>
>>I just want a general reply now. Later I can ask for details to pass
>>on to somebody else.
>>
>>Background: I'm a lead moderator of our local Freecycle group with
>>more than 8,000 members and lots of email to manage. In Eudora (on my
>>iMac with OS 10.6.8) I have set up one personality with our mod team
>>address. So when I put on my moderator hat and send email to a member
>>it looks like the mail is going out from the mod team address. And
>>the reply-to address is the mod team address, so the member replies
>>go to the whole team, not just me.
>>
>>It would be nice if other members of the mod team could do the same
>>with whatever OS/email program/ISP they are using. We'll start with
>>one, our other lead moderator.
>>
>>She uses an iPhone. And she has just replaced her Windows machine
>>with some flavour of iMac (she hasn't yet answered my question about
>>model, OS, etc.). Her email addresses are hotmail and me.com. That's
>>about all I know so far.
>>
>>Would it be possible/easy for her to spoof the mod team email address?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mon Aug 5, 2013 12:22 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"N.A. Nada"
Most services are pro-MS. Nothing new there.
Since I don't have bell.net, how did you sign in? Go back there and turn it off. CS should be able to help you with that.
Have you gone to Mail.app > Prefs > General, and made sure that your Default email reader was set to Mail.app?
On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:03 AM, fussyoldfart wrote:
Thanks Brent, that's a good plan. I have to say that getting help from Bell is problematical. I didn't know when I switched providers that Bell is obstinately pro-Microsoft; coupled to worse customer service than any I can think of this becomes a serious challenge for a dedicated Mac user. I know I can have Mail back in control, it worked for a few days when first I switched. Once I signed in to Outlook, however, net mail became my only path. I do not have any version of Outlook installed on my iMac. It seems that, like Facebook, once you are into Outlook there is no way out. (Ooh, that's too many "ins and outs" but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.)
Darrell
--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@...> wrote:
>
> I'm sure if you set up the accounts in Mail, you could read them there. Go to the Bell.net support page or call them, and dig up the info you need if Mail can't set it up for you.
>
> I tried setting up a fake bell.net account on mine and the error message started "bell.net POP server "pophm.sympatico.ca" ", so there is a set up in Mail. If it is up to date is another question. I don't use bell.net and that is the reason I got an error message since it could not find my account on their servers.
>
> Brent
>
>
> On Aug 4, 2013, at 5:36 AM, fussyoldfart wrote:
>
> Thanks Dan,
>
> I checked and that is exactly how Mail is configured but I still have to open Safari and go to Outlook to get my bell.net mail.
>
> Darrell McDonald
>
> --- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com , Denver Dan <denver.dan@> wrote:
> >
> > Howdy.
> >
> > Darrell, launch Apple's Mail program.
> >
> > Open Mail>Preferences.
> >
> > Click the General icon on Toolbar in Preferences (if not already
> > clicked).
> >
> > Note the very first item named Default email reader.
> >
> > What program is it set to?
> >
> > You should be able to set it to Mail to make Mail your default email
> > program.
> >
> > Sometimes other email program may configure themselves as the default
> > email program.
> >
> > BTW, same thing is available in Apple's Safari to set the default web
> > browser program.
> >
> > Denver Dan
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:04:39 +0000, fussyoldfart wrote:
> > > I recently switched providers and now mail at the new address
> > > provided by the new ISP comes in to Outlook as web mail. I want it to
> > > arrive in my Mail Inbox with all the other mail such as gmail and
> > > yahoo messages. It actually did this for a few days after the switch
> > > but then I "signed in" to Outlook and now I have to use Safari to get
> > > my email.
> > >
> > > With my other provider my personal mail always arrived in "Mail" as
> > > well as my gmail.
> > >
> > > I went to the help section in Mail and followed the instructions to
> > > have it delivered there but that didn't work. Outlook seems to have
> > > taken control. It is possible I have misread the help instructions
> > > but they seemed clear enough. I do know that I did nothing
> > > intentional to commit to using Outlook and I don't like using it just
> > > because it is not Mail and I can't save important messages to my hard
> > > drive, they seem to reside on the net.
> > >
> > > Darrell McDonald
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since I don't have bell.net, how did you sign in? Go back there and turn it off. CS should be able to help you with that.
Have you gone to Mail.app > Prefs > General, and made sure that your Default email reader was set to Mail.app?
On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:03 AM, fussyoldfart wrote:
Thanks Brent, that's a good plan. I have to say that getting help from Bell is problematical. I didn't know when I switched providers that Bell is obstinately pro-Microsoft; coupled to worse customer service than any I can think of this becomes a serious challenge for a dedicated Mac user. I know I can have Mail back in control, it worked for a few days when first I switched. Once I signed in to Outlook, however, net mail became my only path. I do not have any version of Outlook installed on my iMac. It seems that, like Facebook, once you are into Outlook there is no way out. (Ooh, that's too many "ins and outs" but I can't think of a better way to phrase it.)
Darrell
--- In macsupportcentral@
>
> I'm sure if you set up the accounts in Mail, you could read them there. Go to the Bell.net support page or call them, and dig up the info you need if Mail can't set it up for you.
>
> I tried setting up a fake bell.net account on mine and the error message started "bell.net POP server "pophm.
>
> Brent
>
>
> On Aug 4, 2013, at 5:36 AM, fussyoldfart wrote:
>
> Thanks Dan,
>
> I checked and that is exactly how Mail is configured but I still have to open Safari and go to Outlook to get my bell.net mail.
>
> Darrell McDonald
>
> --- In macsupportcentral@
> >
> > Howdy.
> >
> > Darrell, launch Apple's Mail program.
> >
> > Open Mail>Preferences
> >
> > Click the General icon on Toolbar in Preferences (if not already
> > clicked).
> >
> > Note the very first item named Default email reader.
> >
> > What program is it set to?
> >
> > You should be able to set it to Mail to make Mail your default email
> > program.
> >
> > Sometimes other email program may configure themselves as the default
> > email program.
> >
> > BTW, same thing is available in Apple's Safari to set the default web
> > browser program.
> >
> > Denver Dan
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 02:04:39 +0000, fussyoldfart wrote:
> > > I recently switched providers and now mail at the new address
> > > provided by the new ISP comes in to Outlook as web mail. I want it to
> > > arrive in my Mail Inbox with all the other mail such as gmail and
> > > yahoo messages. It actually did this for a few days after the switch
> > > but then I "signed in" to Outlook and now I have to use Safari to get
> > > my email.
> > >
> > > With my other provider my personal mail always arrived in "Mail" as
> > > well as my gmail.
> > >
> > > I went to the help section in Mail and followed the instructions to
> > > have it delivered there but that didn't work. Outlook seems to have
> > > taken control. It is possible I have misread the help instructions
> > > but they seemed clear enough. I do know that I did nothing
> > > intentional to commit to using Outlook and I don't like using it just
> > > because it is not Mail and I can't save important messages to my hard
> > > drive, they seem to reside on the net.
> > >
> > > Darrell McDonald
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
GROUP FOOTER MESSAGE
