4/03/2012

[macsupport] Digest Number 8831

Messages In This Digest (25 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: iMovie HD - Universal or PPC?

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@me.com   hflaxman001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:12 pm (PDT)



On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Jon Kreisler wrote:

> Hi Harry,
> I have v 6.0.3 of iMovie HD. It is Universal and runs on Lion (OS X 10.7)
> Jon

Thanks Jon. I guess I'll dig 'er up.

Apple should have kept up on that one!

Harry

Harold Flaxman
harry.flaxman@me.com

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1b.

Re: iMovie HD - Universal or PPC?

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:55 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:12 PM, Harry Flaxman wrote:

> On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Jon Kreisler wrote:
>
> > Hi Harry,
> > I have v 6.0.3 of iMovie HD. It is Universal and runs on Lion (OS X 10.7)
> > Jon
>
> Thanks Jon. I guess I'll dig 'er up.
>
> Apple should have kept up on that one!

Harry, attempting to open a PPC app in Lion does nothing but bring up a message that it will not work. It will not affect the app in any way. So you don't have to ask.

Brent
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Messages in this topic (4)
2a.

Re: iCloud and spam

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:20 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 4:58 AM, Daly Jessup wrote:

>
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Barbara Adamski wrote:
>
> >
> > Has anyone else noticed a huge increase in spam since switching to iCloud?
>
> I have. I used to get almost NO spam in the In box, and now I have several a day.

And how did you connect it with switching to iCloud and not coincidence?
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Messages in this topic (14)
2b.

Re: iCloud and spam

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@me.com   hflaxman001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:23 pm (PDT)



On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:20 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:

>
> And how did you connect it with switching to iCloud and not coincidence?

The only instance of increased spam I've noticed lately is since Google+ was opened to the general public, and fortunately I used an email addy I seldom use. Man, open to the public and look what crawls in from under the woodwork. It's almost like the start of the internet, used to be terrific, everyone knew everyone else. Then, the gates opened! and voila! corruption.

Harry

Harold Flaxman
harry.flaxman@me.com

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2c.

Re: iCloud and spam

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:28 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Jim Saklad wrote:

> > Has anyone else noticed a huge increase in spam since switching to iCloud?
> > Barb
>
> I noticed a huge increase in softcore porn/Hotmail spam NOT related to iCloud, but that seems to have cured itself.

The Yahoo and Hotmail spam & porn has slowed a bit, but volume changes, as the e-ddresses are being passed around.

About ten years ago I quit all public lists and it took about 5-6 years for the spam volume to drop to near nothing. I signed up for several public lists about a year ago and the volume took a huge increase within a month. The only difference is now I am getting fake Facebook, Twitter, Linkedin and Craigslist invitations. OK, the Linked in maybe from harvesting Linkedin or my job search.

Brent
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Messages in this topic (14)
2d.

Re: iCloud and spam

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:55 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 12:23 PM, Harry Flaxman wrote:

> On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:20 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:
>
> >
> > And how did you connect it with switching to iCloud and not coincidence?
>
> The only instance of increased spam I've noticed lately is since Google+ was opened to the general public, and fortunately I used an email addy I seldom use. Man, open to the public and look what crawls in from under the woodwork. It's almost like the start of the internet, used to be terrific, everyone knew everyone else. Then, the gates opened! and voila! corruption.

Ain't that the truth!

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Messages in this topic (14)
2e.

Re: iCloud and spam

Posted by: "Barb Adamski" adamski@telus.net   bkadamski

Tue Apr 3, 2012 5:23 pm (PDT)



Because it's been spam free since I got it--about 6 years ago or more. I rarely use it...

Barbara K. Adamski
Sent from my iPad

On 2012-04-03, at 12:20 PM, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 4:58 AM, Daly Jessup wrote:
>
> >
> > On Apr 2, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Barbara Adamski wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Has anyone else noticed a huge increase in spam since switching to iCloud?
> >
> > I have. I used to get almost NO spam in the In box, and now I have several a day.
>
> And how did you connect it with switching to iCloud and not coincidence?
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (14)
3.1.

Re: How to bypass the trash bin

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:51 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:08 AM, Tod Hopkins wrote:

> On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:04 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:
> > That is because as Barry pointed out it is no a temporary storage area. If the Trash were not being used as temp storage, you could delete just the 50GB you put into it.
>
> Trash is quite literally a temporary storage location. One might argue over how long I suppose. If your answer is zero, then the whole thing is a total waste. Why bother. At the other extreme, Apple clearly designed it to store "forever." Personally, I consider this flawed thinking as well, but that's just my opinion.
>
> Somewhere in between zero and forever seems like a reasonable answer. I would think the actual answer is personal and based on needs. Trash is simply a container. It has no more need to be empty than any other folder.

I can accept someone else's opinion, and being that you are doing video work it makes sense. But that is only one of many uses of a computer.

I see the attraction of a one step delete, but that is not the best option for the vast majority of users. Remember Apple's original goal was to bring personal computing to everyone.

I use an external RAID and moving to the Trash there, results in a warning dialog and then it is deleted. So I understand what you are saying. But for most, this would be a mistake.

You're right the answer is personal, or at least different depending on what you are doing. And because it is right for you, does not mean it is right for everyone.

Brent
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Messages in this topic (36)
3.2.

Re: How to bypass the trash bin

Posted by: "Peter Gold" peter@knowhowpro.com   idmacguy

Tue Apr 3, 2012 3:49 pm (PDT)



> When you "clear a drive" and hand it to someone else, what is left on it?
> What will they use it for?
>

Erasing a drive with an application almost always runs the erase head along
the same electronic guideways as the recording head had run. What's
recorded along a magnetic track isn't absolutely straight, nor are the
"edges" perfectly sharp. There's always a teensy bit of wander, and a
teensy bit of magnetic stuff just beyond one or the other edge of the
track, that got some signal on it during recording. Magnified, it's a
wandering fuzzy line. Some folks can recover leftover edge fuzz.

The best explanation of how nearly impossible it is to completely remove
everything from a drive is:

Imagine that recording track as a center line on a highway. It was painted
by a moving spray machine. No matter how laser-guided the machine,
something will affect how that line is recorded on the road. Could be wind,
grit, differences in heat, etc. IOW, not perfect.

Now, imagine to remove the line, you run the same sprayer over the same
path with "negative" paint. There's no possibility of the negative falling
on every paint spot and neutralizing it.

"They" say, no matter how many repeated erase passes are made with whatever
program using whatever erase characters, there's almost always a smidgen of
recoverable information.

Now, imagine infinite money to pay for rebuilding anything useful from
those almost-unrecoverable smidgens. Is your data worth that expense and
effort to anyone?

Still, experts say the only way to absolutely securely erase data is to
smash the recording media disks beyond recoverability, AFTER first
magnetically erasing with many passes.

HTH

Regards,

Peter
_______________________
Peter Gold
KnowHow ProServices

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (36)
3.3.

Re: How to bypass the trash bin

Posted by: "OldTechie" oldtechie@wi.rr.com   jimpurcell2001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:05 pm (PDT)



I get a kick out of the guys on NCIS, Tim and Abby, who supposedly recover nearly all the stuff on a wiped drive.
Of course with the right software they could access the contents if it was not a so called DOD wipe.
I also get kick out of Tim making a big deal about defraging his hard drive.

Jim
>
> Erasing a drive with an application almost always runs the erase head along
> the same electronic guideways as the recording head had run. What's
> recorded along a magnetic track isn't absolutely straight, nor are the
> "edges" perfectly sharp. There's always a teensy bit of wander, and a
> teensy bit of magnetic stuff just beyond one or the other edge of the
> track, that got some signal on it during recording. Magnified, it's a
> wandering fuzzy line. Some folks can recover leftover edge fuzz.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (36)
3.4.

Re: How to bypass the trash bin

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:15 pm (PDT)



On 3 April 2012 18:46, Tod Hopkins <hoplist@hillmanncarr.com> wrote:

>
> When I clear drives, nothing or only what I intend the recipient to see.
> After years of Trash causing me grief, I'm pretty ruthless about making
> sure everything is wiped. I will backup files, erase, and restore before I
> leave "Trash" on a drive. Often I cannot easily "empty" the trash because
> it was not created with my user. And I do not wish to empty my system's
> trash merely to clear an external drive.
>
> My work is Media production. The drives will be used for transport,
> editing, or field recordings. I am the systems manager and manage several
> dozen external drives.
>
> This, by the way, is NOT my main use of Graveyard. I use Graveyard to
> manage the space on my own media drives. Graveyard will not remove
> protected files, so it can't delete ".trash" folders. I reformat drives to
> accomplish this (partition/erase). In theory, I could use Terminal, but
> it's so many steps to find and delete the hidden trash files with terminal
> that I rarely bother. Backup, erase, restore.
>

I'm still missing something here. Why do you not simply erase (format) the
drive before copying to it only what you want?

I'm just not getting the whole "Trash problem" and, if it's real, why are
you not using the Unix CLI to bypass it entirely?

Otto

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (36)
3.5.

Re: How to bypass the trash bin

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:23 pm (PDT)



On 3 April 2012 23:49, Peter Gold <peter@knowhowpro.com> wrote:

>
> Erasing a drive with an application almost always runs the erase head along
> the same electronic guideways as the recording head had run. What's
> recorded along a magnetic track isn't absolutely straight, nor are the
> "edges" perfectly sharp. There's always a teensy bit of wander, and a
> teensy bit of magnetic stuff just beyond one or the other edge of the
> track, that got some signal on it during recording. Magnified, it's a
> wandering fuzzy line. Some folks can recover leftover edge fuzz.
>
> The best explanation of how nearly impossible it is to completely remove
> everything from a drive is:
>
> Imagine that recording track as a center line on a highway. It was painted
> by a moving spray machine. No matter how laser-guided the machine,
> something will affect how that line is recorded on the road. Could be wind,
> grit, differences in heat, etc. IOW, not perfect.
>
> Now, imagine to remove the line, you run the same sprayer over the same
> path with "negative" paint. There's no possibility of the negative falling
> on every paint spot and neutralizing it.
>
> "They" say, no matter how many repeated erase passes are made with whatever
> program using whatever erase characters, there's almost always a smidgen of
> recoverable information.
>
> Now, imagine infinite money to pay for rebuilding anything useful from
> those almost-unrecoverable smidgens. Is your data worth that expense and
> effort to anyone?
>
> Still, experts say the only way to absolutely securely erase data is to
> smash the recording media disks beyond recoverability, AFTER first
> magnetically erasing with many passes.
>
>
Thanks Peter,

But I think this is a different topic: we were talking about the need for a
Trash/Recycle Bin (and the emptying of same) whereas you are describing the
issues of securely erasing a drive.

Good analogy though. Best I've seen. :)

Otto

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (36)
4a.

Re: Making an ebook question

Posted by: "HAL9000" jrswebhome@yahoo.com   jrswebhome

Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:22 pm (PDT)



Good ideas, thanks very much. jr

--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com, Jurgen Richter <yahoo-1@...> wrote:
>
> John R wrote:
>
> The complete file is now a RFTD file with images. I can make a pdf, but
> the dimensions are so large, I can't force the pdf to smaller
> dimensions, or can I from the app TextEdit?
>
> Unless you found another phone app that can open the RFTD file, you
> don't have a lot of choice. While the app you mentioned cannot do what
> you want, you can however copy thoses PDFs (under Finder) and re-crop
> them to better fit your phone using Preview as the application. If you
> have Acrobat Pro (not Reader) you can crop and resize there as well. If
> it was me, I'd reslice the images to fit on my phone in Landscape mode,
> maximizing width and scrolling the height.
> You can also resize your PDF files in Photoshop.
>

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5a.

Had to switch to my PC to gather some personal files.

Posted by: "Jim" oldtechie@wi.rr.com   jimpurcell2001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:44 pm (PDT)



I've been on my mac for the better part of the week learning how to Mac and even how to Mac Unix. But I didn't have any of my personal files on the Mac, so I switched back to the Dell to copy some files to my Thumb drive.

So now I fand myself wanting to use CMD, on PC thke windows key, to enlarge type in email messages, etc. Short term switching can be cornfuzing. :-)

Old, let's make that Really OLD and not that techie.
A.K.A. jim

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Messages in this topic (2)
5b.

Re: Had to switch to my PC to gather some personal files.

Posted by: "Daly Jessup" jessup@san.rr.com   dalyjessup

Tue Apr 3, 2012 5:22 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Jim wrote:

> I've been on my mac for the better part of the week learning how to Mac and even how to Mac Unix. But I didn't have any of my personal files on the Mac, so I switched back to the Dell to copy some files to my Thumb drive.
>
> So now I fand myself wanting to use CMD, on PC thke windows key, to enlarge type in email messages, etc. Short term switching can be cornfuzing. :-)

You should be able to do that. Command-+ on my keyboard does zoom in the text in email. Doesn't it for you?

Daly
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6a.

Where to find OLD Mac/Apple info

Posted by: "neelie" neeliec2000@yahoo.com   neeliec2000

Tue Apr 3, 2012 2:27 pm (PDT)



Does anyone know of any websites where one might go to find kind of "one-stop" info on old/obsolete Apple computers and the associated software that came with specific machines?

I have an old iBook and an old first gen flat screen iMac and am trying to sort out all the restore disks. Some say iBook, so I know they go with iBook. Some just say Mac or OSxx.

I'd like to find a way to match the correct software with the correct computer before packing them away.

THX!

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Messages in this topic (4)
6b.

Re: Where to find OLD Mac/Apple info

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Tue Apr 3, 2012 2:55 pm (PDT)




On Apr 3, 2012, at 2:27 PM, neelie wrote:

> Does anyone know of any websites where one might go to find kind of "one-stop" info on old/obsolete Apple computers and the associated software that came with specific machines?
>
> I have an old iBook and an old first gen flat screen iMac and am trying to sort out all the restore disks. Some say iBook, so I know they go with iBook. Some just say Mac or OSxx.
>
> I'd like to find a way to match the correct software with the correct computer before packing them away.

Have you tried MacTracker? It will tell you the original OS, but I don't think it includes if there were any optional software with it like say iLife.

I usually just wrote in pencil on the sleeve of each disc which Mac it came with.

Brent
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Messages in this topic (4)
6c.

Re: Where to find OLD Mac/Apple info

Posted by: "neelie" neeliec2000@yahoo.com   neeliec2000

Tue Apr 3, 2012 3:29 pm (PDT)





--- In macsupportcentral@yahoogroups.com, "N.A. Nada" <whodo678@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 3, 2012, at 2:27 PM, neelie wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know of any websites where one might go to find kind of "one-stop" info on old/obsolete Apple computers and the associated software that came with specific machines?
> >
> > I have an old iBook and an old first gen flat screen iMac and am trying to sort out all the restore disks. Some say iBook, so I know they go with iBook. Some just say Mac or OSxx.
> >
> > I'd like to find a way to match the correct software with the correct computer before packing them away.
>
> Have you tried MacTracker? It will tell you the original OS, but I don't think it includes if there were any optional software with it like say iLife.
>
> I usually just wrote in pencil on the sleeve of each disc which Mac it came with.
>
> Brent
>

Thank you, Brent! I haven't tried MacTracker, but I will. I'm much better now about marking disks and booklets that come with machines or peripherals. I don't want to have to go through with this again!

I seem to remember that when a computer or peripheral was "current" you could check the company website and there would be someplace that said "what's in the box," or something similar.

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6d.

Re: Where to find OLD Mac/Apple info

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:54 pm (PDT)



On 3 April 2012 23:29, neelie <neeliec2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> Thank you, Brent! I haven't tried MacTracker, but I will. I'm much
> better now about marking disks and booklets that come with machines or
> peripherals. I don't want to have to go through with this again!
>
> I seem to remember that when a computer or peripheral was "current" you
> could check the company website and there would be someplace that said
> "what's in the box," or something similar.
>
> Low End Mac and Every Mac are also very good for Mac history.
<http://lowendmac.com/profiles.htm>
<http://www.everymac.com/>

Otto

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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7.

Apple Stock & Market Cap Predictions Go Gaga

Posted by: "Denver Dan" denver.dan@verizon.net   denverdan22180

Tue Apr 3, 2012 3:06 pm (PDT)



Howdy.

Today I've seen several market prognostications, online and via radio,
that Apple stock might go over $1,000 / share USD in the next year or
two and that this may make Apple the world's first trillion dollar
corporation by market capitalization.

It is just an astonishing development.

Denver Dan

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8a.

Re: Replacing MobileMe Gallery

Posted by: "Jay Abraham" jaygroups@abrahamgroup.net   kerala01212001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 3:37 pm (PDT)



Picasa doesn't seem to have the functionality of MobileMe Gallery. I can upload pictures from iPhoto but if I share a link with family it becomes public. The link can be forwarded and anybody can access as the album can't be password protected. I think if I share through Google Plus, I can restrict it but that requires everybody to have a G+ account and me to put them in a circle. It says I can specify by e-mail address but this feature doesn't seem to link to e-mails in my G-Mail account.

Still looking for an adequate replacement.

Jay

On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:32 PM, Jay Abraham wrote:

> Hi Otto,
>
> I wasn't aware of that. I just looked at what sites were listed in the share option of iPhoto. I will try it out. Does this allow pictures added to Picasso to be synced back to iPhoto?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Otto Nikolaus <otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought Picasa Web Albums worked with iPhoto, or do you mean some other
> > function?
> > <http://picasa.google.com/mac_tools.html>
> >
> > Otto
> >
> > On 2 April 2012 21:07, Jay Abraham <jaygroups@abrahamgroup.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > What services are you using to replace MobileMe's gallery and how do you
> > > like them. I have used Google's Picassa but it isn't integrated with
> > > iPhoto so I'm not sure of using it as a replacement.
> > >
> > > I like the ability to password protect the images and video I share as
> > > well as the ability for others to add pictures which can then be added back
> > > to my iPhoto.
> > >
> > > Would love to hear thoughts from people who have used MobileMe and where
> > > they are going to.
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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8b.

Re: Replacing MobileMe Gallery

Posted by: "Bekah" bekah0176@sbcglobal.net   bekalex

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:33 pm (PDT)



I've been pretty happy with WordPress but it's more of a web-site than gallery thing and what you say about Picasa is probably true of WordPress. What I need is a place I can put my Reunion genealogy cards (a Mac program) and has password protection. I'm looking at MacHighway but ???

Bekah

On Apr 3, 2012, at 3:37 PM, Jay Abraham wrote:

> Picasa doesn't seem to have the functionality of MobileMe Gallery. I can upload pictures from iPhoto but if I share a link with family it becomes public. The link can be forwarded and anybody can access as the album can't be password protected. I think if I share through Google Plus, I can restrict it but that requires everybody to have a G+ account and me to put them in a circle. It says I can specify by e-mail address but this feature doesn't seem to link to e-mails in my G-Mail account.
>
> Still looking for an adequate replacement.
>
> Jay
>
> On Apr 2, 2012, at 8:32 PM, Jay Abraham wrote:
>
>> Hi Otto,
>>
>> I wasn't aware of that. I just looked at what sites were listed in the share option of iPhoto. I will try it out. Does this allow pictures added to Picasso to be synced back to iPhoto?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 2, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Otto Nikolaus <otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I thought Picasa Web Albums worked with iPhoto, or do you mean some other
>>> function?
>>> <http://picasa.google.com/mac_tools.html>
>>>
>>> Otto
>>>
>>> On 2 April 2012 21:07, Jay Abraham <jaygroups@abrahamgroup.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> What services are you using to replace MobileMe's gallery and how do you
>>>> like them. I have used Google's Picassa but it isn't integrated with
>>>> iPhoto so I'm not sure of using it as a replacement.
>>>>
>>>> I like the ability to password protect the images and video I share as
>>>> well as the ability for others to add pictures which can then be added back
>>>> to my iPhoto.
>>>>
>>>> Would love to hear thoughts from people who have used MobileMe and where
>>>> they are going to.
>>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Group FAQ:
> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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9a.

Unix on the Mac issue

Posted by: "Jim" oldtechie@wi.rr.com   jimpurcell2001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:12 pm (PDT)



The command ls -i is suppose to show the attributes of files,it's suppose to be in letters. But I get numbers, seven of them. I recall seeing numbers a few years ago when I was playing with Terminal, There were more than seven some were dashes when the attribute was not available or something like that.

Jim

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9b.

Re: Unix on the Mac issue

Posted by: "Otto Nikolaus" otto.nikolaus@googlemail.com   nikyzf

Tue Apr 3, 2012 5:04 pm (PDT)



-i means "show inode number"

Did you mean to use -l (lower case L), which shows permissions, etc.?

For any Unix command, type
man 'command'
to get the parameters ("arguments").

Otto

On 4 April 2012 00:12, Jim <oldtechie@wi.rr.com> wrote:

> The command ls -i is suppose to show the attributes of files,it's suppose
> to be in letters. But I get numbers, seven of them. I recall seeing numbers
> a few years ago when I was playing with Terminal, There were more than
> seven some were dashes when the attribute was not available or something
> like that.
>

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9c.

Re: Unix on the Mac issue

Posted by: "OldTechie" oldtechie@wi.rr.com   jimpurcell2001

Tue Apr 3, 2012 5:18 pm (PDT)



Otto,

Yes, it was a lower case L, but in the book the letter is so fat I thought it was a lower case I

TNX for the reply,

Jim
> -i means "show inode number"
> Did you mean to use -l (lower case L), which shows permissions, etc.?
>

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