12/17/2011

[macsupport] Digest Number 8623

Mac Support Central

Messages In This Digest (13 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: WinMob7 and a little irony

Posted by: "Denver Dan" denver.dan@verizon.net   denverdan22180

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:55 pm (PST)



So I should have called in WinPhony7 ??

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011 22:21:54 -0500, Jim Harry wrote:
>
> BTW, Windows Mobile ended with 6.5. The new OS is called Windows
> Phone 7 to make the break. They share commonality in the kernel, but
> are very different otherwise.

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1b.

Re: WinMob7 and a little irony

Posted by: "Jim Harry" jim.harry@harryfamily.com   jnharry

Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:58 pm (PST)



On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 10:55 PM, Denver Dan <denver.dan@verizon.net> wrote:
> So I should have called in WinPhony7  ??

I might have to slip that name the next time I meet with my MS rep... lol.

I played around with the Samsung Focus running Windows Phone and I was
impressed with the quality of the interface. It was missing far too
many things to think about taking the place of my iPhone, but it
definitely has potential.

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2a.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:35 pm (PST)



That's exactly what I've just done and am reinstalling apps and cleaning up right now. It's been a busy day with this machine, but, it's like having a new computer.

I've been migrating for far too long, I guess.

I did try an install over the old one, no dice. I tried a clean install, then migrate. I wound up with a kernel panic after 3 hours of the Migration Assistant running, and it was at it's last seconds, (talk about some language flying).

I'm about 65% done reinstalling stuff now. I guess I'll either be up all night, it's 23:35 here, or start again in the morning.

As he shouted, 'Gee thanks OWC!!'.

Harry

On Dec 16, 2011, at 7:11 PM, Christopher Collins wrote:

> Harry,
>
> I'd be suggesting that you backup your drive and do a clean install.
>
> Memory/data corruption, like virus damage, can hide in the most mysterious of places.
>
> Doing a nuke&pave now, could save you a heap of problems down the line.
>
> And reinstall all your apps clean too!
>
> cjc

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2b.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:37 pm (PST)



Right you are Randy! I tried all the first line offense moves here. Reinstall over existing which I thought would work. Erase and install followed by a Migration. As I stated in my last, that resulted in a kernel panic in the last few seconds of it's transfer. Here I am with a clean machine, and I gotta say, it's like a whole new machine! Christmas today instead of next week!! hehehe.

Harry

On Dec 16, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

> You must be new to the Macintosh and used to the way things are done
> in the Windows world, Christopher.
>
> First, there is little to no "virus damage" that Mac users
> encounter. While there are over a million viruses for Windows, there
> are no actual viruses in the wild for the Mac, and extremely little
> malware in general.
>
> Second, reinstalling the OS and apps is a very last resort thing that
> is rarely necessary with the Mac. Macs are much more reliable than
> Windows boxes, and they tend to be easier to troubleshoot when they
> do encounter problems.
>
> These are two of the really big reasons people use/switch to the
> Macintosh.

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Messages in this topic (17)
2c.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com   randybrucesinger

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:12 pm (PST)




On Dec 16, 2011, at 8:36 PM, Harry Flaxman wrote:

> Reinstall over existing which I thought would work.

One of the biggest mistakes that Apple has made, in my opinion, is
eliminating the "archive and install" option from the OS X
installer. That has led to a lot of problems for folks doing upgrade
installs.

You can do a clean install, but as you have found, doing that is
sincerely a pain in the tokhes.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________

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2d.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:36 pm (PST)



On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:11 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
> One of the biggest mistakes that Apple has made, in my opinion, is
> eliminating the "archive and install" option from the OS X
> installer. That has led to a lot of problems for folks doing upgrade
> installs.
>
> You can do a clean install, but as you have found, doing that is
> sincerely a pain in the tokhes.

I had been led to believe by an Apple support person that Archive and Install was still, in fact, alive in Lion. The erase and install is a little different. One must use Disk Utility to erase the target prior to doing the install. The Archive and Install should be just a matter of running the OS installer and overwriting the existing OS.

Not having the old system retained does eliminate the archive portion, now that I think of it. I believe that the tech that I was talking to probably never had much experience with past versions of the OS.

Harry

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Messages in this topic (17)
2e.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:01 pm (PST)



On Dec 17, 2011, at 12:11 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
> One of the biggest mistakes that Apple has made, in my opinion, is
> eliminating the "archive and install" option from the OS X
> installer. That has led to a lot of problems for folks doing upgrade
> installs.
>
> You can do a clean install, but as you have found, doing that is
> sincerely a pain in the tokhes.

Boy, I've gotta say this, my Mac is like brandy-dandy new. Many, many small problems that I was having are now gone! I was having Bluetooth issues with a headset that I would have to pair each time I wanted to use it because the audio device in OS X would not let me select an alternate output while they were paired. I had tried powering the headset off, but it would not power off entirely. Junk like that.

I now have not disabled the 'reopen windows' option. My machine flies into service, with many, many small applets and standard apps like Mail, Safari, iTunes..etc. running. The machine comes up almost within 10 seconds, or so it seems. I guess that sleepimage file is there for a reason.

Do I sound happy or what!

:)

Harry

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2f.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Randy B. Singer" randy@macattorney.com   randybrucesinger

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:01 pm (PST)




On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:36 PM, Harry Flaxman wrote:

> I had been led to believe by an Apple support person that Archive
> and Install was still, in fact, alive in Lion. The erase and
> install is a little different. One must use Disk Utility to erase
> the target prior to doing the install. The Archive and Install
> should be just a matter of running the OS installer and overwriting
> the existing OS.

Have a look and check. There is no Archive and Install option in
Lion, and Snow Leopard was the first version of OS X to leave it out.
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/12/os-x-snow-leopard-installation-
process-changes-described/

Apple will tell you that Lion does an "automatic archive and install"
where it supposedly checks for incompatible software and isolates
it. But this isn't an archive and install at all, it is really just
doing an update, and Lion does a notoriously bad job at finding all
incompatible software judging by the number of users who have had
problems after installing Lion.

Interestingly, you can still do an archive and install in Snow
Leopard using the Terminal:
http://intlect.com/how-to-archive-and-install-os-x-snow-leopard/

I understand that it is possible to do something similar in Lion, but
things are more complicated because Lion doesn't come on a DVD.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________

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2g.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:32 pm (PST)



On Dec 17, 2011, at 2:01 AM, Randy B. Singer wrote:
>
> On Dec 16, 2011, at 9:36 PM, Harry Flaxman wrote:
>
>> I had been led to believe by an Apple support person that Archive
>> and Install was still, in fact, alive in Lion. The erase and
>> install is a little different. One must use Disk Utility to erase
>> the target prior to doing the install. The Archive and Install
>> should be just a matter of running the OS installer and overwriting
>> the existing OS.
>
> Have a look and check. There is no Archive and Install option in
> Lion, and Snow Leopard was the first version of OS X to leave it out.
> http://www.macrumors.com/2009/08/12/os-x-snow-leopard-installation-
> process-changes-described/
>
> Apple will tell you that Lion does an "automatic archive and install"
> where it supposedly checks for incompatible software and isolates
> it. But this isn't an archive and install at all, it is really just
> doing an update, and Lion does a notoriously bad job at finding all
> incompatible software judging by the number of users who have had
> problems after installing Lion.
>
> Interestingly, you can still do an archive and install in Snow
> Leopard using the Terminal:
> http://intlect.com/how-to-archive-and-install-os-x-snow-leopard/
>
> I understand that it is possible to do something similar in Lion, but
> things are more complicated because Lion doesn't come on a DVD.

I don't recall which release of OS X had the first archive and install option, but I remember using it when it started. It was nice to have the old stuff archived in a subdirectory for easy access. It was probably the first release that allowed 'non-destructive' write-over type installs. I've been using OS X since 2002, I believe. I've had to work between different platforms over the years, with Mac being my primary. At one point, I was running System 8, I think, on a Pegasos machine, a hybrid that ran AmigaOS as well as Apple's systems via some sort of good emulation. Anyway, it ran pretty much full speed.

I've been on so many OS' over those years, I forget which version was which.

Anyway, I dropped an email to Tim Cook, FWIW, suggesting it's reintroduction. If he's like Steve was, it would be a hit or miss deal. Steve replied to me a couple of times anyway.

Harry

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2h.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Christopher Collins" maclist@analogdigital.com.au   cjc1959au

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:27 am (PST)



Actually Randy, whether it is Windows, MAC OS X or Linux/Unix/Xenix makes little to no difference.

Data Corruption can hide on the most mysterious of places. Like damage from viruses/malware/trojans can hide in the most mysterious of places.

My suggestion for doing a clean install was proved right.

Nuke & Pave, no matter what the OS, is the simplest & quickest way to ensure a damaged OS is going to work quickly.

If you value your time at nothing, then by all means spend as much time as you want try to fix a damaged OS.

The only guaranteed way to repair any faulty OS is a clean install.

cjc

On 17/12/2011, at 12:29 PM, Randy B. Singer wrote:

>
> On Dec 16, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Christopher Collins wrote:
>
> >
> > I'd be suggesting that you backup your drive and do a clean install.
> >
> > Memory/data corruption, like virus damage, can hide in the most
> > mysterious of places.
> >
> > Doing a nuke&pave now, could save you a heap of problems down the
> > line.
> >
> > And reinstall all your apps clean too!
> >
> > cjc
>
> You must be new to the Macintosh and used to the way things are done
> in the Windows world, Christopher.
>
> First, there is little to no "virus damage" that Mac users
> encounter. While there are over a million viruses for Windows, there
> are no actual viruses in the wild for the Mac, and extremely little
> malware in general.
>
> Second, reinstalling the OS and apps is a very last resort thing that
> is rarely necessary with the Mac. Macs are much more reliable than
> Windows boxes, and they tend to be easier to troubleshoot when they
> do encounter problems.
>
> These are two of the really big reasons people use/switch to the
> Macintosh.
>
> ___________________________________________
> Randy B. Singer
> Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)_
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Messages in this topic (17)
2i.

Re: Space Available Drastically Wrong!

Posted by: "Harry Flaxman" harry.flaxman@comcast.net   hflaxman001

Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:42 am (PST)



On Dec 17, 2011, at 6:27 AM, Christopher Collins wrote:
>
> Actually Randy, whether it is Windows, MAC OS X or Linux/Unix/Xenix makes little to no difference.
>
> Data Corruption can hide on the most mysterious of places. Like damage from viruses/malware/trojans can hide in the most mysterious of places.
>
> My suggestion for doing a clean install was proved right.
>
> Nuke & Pave, no matter what the OS, is the simplest & quickest way to ensure a damaged OS is going to work quickly.
>
> If you value your time at nothing, then by all means spend as much time as you want try to fix a damaged OS.
>
> The only guaranteed way to repair any faulty OS is a clean install.

I've been using a Mac since around '87 or so. Randy's right, especially with the introduction of OS X, the last thing I, (or mostly every Mac user that I know), want to do is an erase & install of the operating system. Up until now, I can't remember the last time I did one. OS X is one of the only operating systems that I know that feature an 'install over' method for updating and upgrading an operating system. For me, up until now, that was fine, in fact great!

When we had problems on a mini or mainframe, I don't believe we ever did a 'clean' install. This is probably true of most systems, aside from Windows, that I've worked with. There would be a set of magnetic tapes with PTFs, or 'program temporary fixes', as IBM liked to call them. We would apply those in lieu of anything else. Journaling was implemented so that there would be redundancy and a way to recover portions of code that might have become corrupt. The old 'micros', (which they really weren't…AT&T machines for instance), would never be wiped and reinstalled. Those ran Unix by the way.

The easy way to go is to erase and install, but is it really? I will spend most of the weekend, and have already burned almost 24 hours, recovering. That could never be so in the professional world. I know, this is not professional, or is it? Many people use Macs in a business environment. They cannot afford to be down for the time it takes to do a clean install, including reinstallation of applications.

Computing was never about what I'm going through. I've worked with enough systems of all varieties to know that. This is one of the reasons I stuck with Mac. This is 'Windowesque'.

If I sound passionate about this, it's because I am. I've seen enough crap with Windows in my career to keep me on the Mac side.

Hopefully, this will be the last time!

Harry

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Messages in this topic (17)
3a.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "N.A. Nada" whodo678@comcast.net

Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:04 am (PST)



Arjun,

I don't think the word you were looking for was offensive, but I understand what you mean, and no offense is taken by me.

It is your country and you (all) have the right to run it as you see fit. If foreigners want to do business there or visit, they have to follow your rules. Same when they do business in or visit my country. But I think that your patriotism is blinding you to the restrictions your government has set for foreign business doing business in your country. In fact, it is preventing some from doing business there. If you read the article I mentioned before, I'm glad they are blocking Walmart. I think it harms small local US businesses and communities.

But now you as an individual are telling Apple how to run their business. It is up to you to ask them.

I have not suggested anything about your educational level or intelligence, and as founder and CEO of a company, I would expect a higher educational level. I have said I think you have confused a few issues.

And I have not suggested to snitch on anyone. If they aren't doing a good job and helping you with Apple products, I think Apple would appreciate hearing from you. But you keep laying the blame on Apple Corp, when it appears that it should have been with the local Apple vendor. So you have verified that they are an Apple Authorized Premium Reseller, good.

You were placing all the blame on Apple, but none on the local Apple Authorized Premium Reseller. If "India is a land where people believe in relationships." then why did they not go the extra mile to resolve this for you?

The rest of your post is just an rant, off topic for the list and does not deserve a response. BTW, no I can not name any Indian Presidents, but what does that have to do with this subject?

Brent

On Dec 16, 2011, at 3:23 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:

> Mr. Nada
>
> If Apple could give me in writing that Indian policies do not allow them to ship in India, I would seriously have taken the matter up with the government as to what allows a company as small and as meagre in thought, that they can appoint "authorized vendors" and "authorized premium resellers" in India, and ask them not to provide service to "Indians". If my present mail sounds offensive, I am sorry to say, but the tone of your message is stirring a patriotic feeling inside me. We in India are free citizens of the world, as in any other democracy.
>
> I have been using computers since 25 years now, and I also owned Apple computers purchased abroad, brought to India after paying duties and taxes, during the eightees. Since there were other makes of computers available in India, we used those for education and work, and If you are hinting that I am uneducated and uninformed, then I have traveled across the globe, and also awarded full scholarship at American universities where I did not choose to study because I have been born an Indian and if nothing more, the soil of my country has fed me with food and provided me shelter, for which I am completely indebted. I am not one of those Indians who have fled their land to work as a mathematical genius and earn the accords of being an achiever. It was in 1988 that I started to submit my assignments using computers, at a time when there were enough people In India who hadn't even seen a computer. In 1997, I won a national prize in robotics, and computers remained a hobby for me, while I pursued interests in business, economics and worked professional in management consulting.
>
> I do not know much about your background, but I have learnt one thing among many others in life - do not snitch on anyone when its not their fault. The service provider is an Apple Authorized Premium Reseller, who is listed on the Apple website. Their employees have been trained under Apple Certification Programs, and they are doing business turnover of over 10 million dollars for Apple alone every month. They are vendors for other companies in India as well, and that's how a lot of companies do business in India - by building on partnerships. When it comes to service, there are enough customers who are not fools to be providing this vendor with that quantum of business, if they would've had a doubt on the quality they would be receiving.
>
> More so, India is a land where people believe in relationships. They work on their relationships. It is not rare that you step into any store at random, and find out that the cousin of one of the people who works there is married to a cousin of yours. And people respect these relationships to the core, where marriage happens once in a lifetime. In a land which has perhaps the highest population growth rate, highest industrial growth rate and perhaps the second or third largest population in the world. And the reason why many companies choose to have such partners is because people have relationships, and these relationships are promissory notes into commercial success. Someone I know has a Honda dealership. And believe it or not, there is not a single person we know who would not have atleast one Honda car in their garage, or would think about buying a car without considering Honda. That relationship thing is supreme here. Facebook has happened today in America, but social networks of India are unbeatable in terms of how business is done here.
>
> If you are talking about a country that has restrictive policies, tell me the name of one Indian president of America. The land which speaks about openness has never had a non-American born president. But India is one country in the world, where we are 80% Hindu, more muslims live here in peace than the entire populations of many Islamic countries of the world. The leader of our single largest political party is an Italian and our prime minister is a Sikh who belongs from a minority community. And we have transparent policies filtering down to the grassroot, with Right To Information (RTI) being given as a fundamental right to every citizen of the country, where he or she can question any authority or law for the very basis, and challenge it in the interest of the community and people at large - not only people in India but worldwide.
>
> As Indians, we are a country that has a heritage of richess, and we were known by the name of Hindustan more than 10,000 years ago, and our name has live on as Hindustan despite many a hundred rulers who tried to conquer the land failed in their attempts. Even the name India originates from the word Indus, the river that flows at the north of India, and is known to be the oldest civilization and the most developed civilization in history of mankind.
>
> Although, you might find me being very assertive in my language, I am again not hinting that I have anything personal with any one particular person, and I would've readily accepted if the policies were being fair, but I was literally stunned when someone at Customer Relations used "India" and "Indians" in a racist tone, which is when I shared with the group. I had the privilege to work with a very senior rocket scientist, who has shared office in space research with our former president in atomic and nuclear research, and he taught me during my MBA, that society at large is ethical. And if you encounter a small group of people who are being wrong and unjust, then refer it to larger society, and that was my interest in joining the group, and not to single out one person in customer relations or apple vendors in India, or any of the readers of this forum.
>
> I believe we are part of a community in every facet of our lives, be it apple users or not, and whatever we do in our life, must be done in a manner that it serves people.
>
> I'll end this note with a thought - We feel that we will pass on nature and its gifts to our children, hence we shouldn't pollute the earth. In reality, we have borrowed their future to live our present. If we do not use it wisely and make our payments on borrowings on time, nature will itself consume us. We cannot steal the future from our children.
>
> Again, I apologize for any personal remarks or for hurting anyone in particular within this group. I did not mean to make anything personal when I shared my experience with the group. My only motive was to make public all facts in a transparent manner, and if any misunderstandings are happening, I am sorry for my part in sharing.
>
> And if any company today is looking at India as a market, it is because India is a land of promise. I do not want to speak more here, but if you have an interest, please do feel to read a few thoughts of mine about India at www.speakleadership.com, which stirred in my mind when I was working with one of the renowned political critics India has. India is the home of knowledge in the world. And it is not far from today that the world will witness the rise of India, not as a country that rose by competing but as a country that won through collaboration.
>
> Regards,
> Arjun
>
> On 16-Dec-2011, at 2:06 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:
>
>> Arjun,
>>
>> I'm just communicating my view on your position.
>>
>> 1. I'm not arguing that you had a problem that others have had. And I am glad you finally got a replacement.
>>
>> I'm arguing that you are blaming everything on Apple. You are still confusing the local Apple authorized vendors with Apple.
>>
>> The Apple authorized vendor you are using is giving you lousy service. Are you sure they are authorized? What is the name of this vendor so others can avoid them, also?
>>
>> And you were not bothering to mention that your country's government has imposed limits on how Apple does business in your country. Nothing wrong with that, it is your country. I'm not saying that the limits are better or worse, just that they are different and restrictive. But it is like saying that the only winning hands in the game has to include an Ace, but only the dealer can have an Ace. At that point I don't sit out the hand, I walk away from the table. It looks like Apple was not offered a chair at the table, or they chose to walk away.
>>
>> 2. You have a choice, if you don't like Apple's business plan on how they control their hardware and software, get something else. Millions of other people use other computers and OSes. You have a choice, but apparently you think Apple's product is better. Life is tough, get over it. Besides, it is their business plan that has made the product so good.
>>
>> 3. Yeah, you took it in to what you believe to be is an Apple authorized vendor, not Apple. Have you checked with Apple to verify they are authorized or to complain about them? You keep confusing Apple and the vendors. Apple is either restricted by local regulations from having an official presence in India, or they chose not to. How come you won't address these regulations on how foreign companies do business in your country?
>>
>> You even say that Apple told you that they can not provide you service in India. See issue #1. Lousy logistics, again you seem to be confusing the authorized vendor with Apple.
>>
>> You had the same unit in 17 times, not to Apple, but to a vendor, and you are just now complaining? With your persistence on this thread, I'm surprised you didn't demand a replacement laptop after about 4 or 5 trips. Sounds like you have a valid issue with the authorized vendor you chose, since they could not resolve it in 17 trips. Again, what is the vendor's name?
>>
>> But Apple did help you when you complied with their request to send it to an official Apple repair center, not to a third party vendor. Maybe you should be posting that to get satisfaction, to send it to the regional official Apple repair center in Singapore, rather than to the vendor you chose, or ones in India.
>>
>> How is the postal service or package delivery services in India? Are they secure? Could you ship it to the vendor for service rather than taking it there? I still think you need to find another vendor that will give you better service.
>>
>> I don't know whether it was an Apple vendor or Apple, again two different things, who said, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India.", nor the origination of the shipment. But apparently Apple can ship products back from Singapore after they repair or replace it. There are customs restrictions about shipping certain electronics internationally, so the statement could be true and not be racist. Or again, it could be Indian regulations on imports. I don't know.
>>
>> We have a similar situation in the state of Florida. Local regulations do not allow extended warranties to be sold or honored in the state, so AppleCare warranties can not be purchased there. So no extended warranty service is available to Apple owners there. You don't hear much about it, because most people realize the problem is not with Apple or its authorized vendors, but with the local regulations.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Mr. Nada
>>>
>>> Your note is a little disturbing but I will put down three points to explain myself.
>>>
>>> 1. I believe if there is some truth in a matter, it must be communicated, not over-rated. I communicated my issues to the group to highlight good and bad practices.
>>>
>>> 2. I would count myself in the protagonist category, and also the part that OS X is addictive. If you are running OS X and iOS, you're pretty much cornered - that's the way Apple builds its products. You really don't have much choice to go anywhere else.
>>>
>>> 3. And I did take the unit in. They might be having their policies, but at what cost to the consumer. I was running around without any hope for a long time since May this year. The closest Apple service provider was a few hundred kilometers away from where I have my office. When Apple started to say that they couldn't provide me service in India, and I would have to ship the unit to them in Singapore, I actually felt that they are lousy in their logistics, and that they are trying piggyback on my infrastructure and cost. I took the unit about 11 times for just diagnosis. The unit was also repaired six times. That means 17 times the unit was deposited with Apple Care, and for me, that's 34 trips. In essence, it's actually more than the cost of two Macbook Pros. But the customer often doesn't realize that things won't be right, and you continue to incur such costs over a period of time. The Authorized Service Providers were caught up in political issues it seems because they would acknowledge in my presence the screen flicker, but communicate to Apple that the problem couldn't be replicated. For days they would keep my machine and the hardware tests would pass. This was very bugging, because I even captured it on camera and sent the flics to customer relations. Customer relations acknowledged there was a problem, but insisted on physical verification which the authorised service provider was not communicating properly. It landed me in a soup, and required physical verification three times, meaning six trips to and fro from the service provider. And if someone were to estimate the implied loss of work, because every time I had to spend time extracting data and putting it back, because they would be very confident after fixing it with replaced components that would've solved the problem, there was a cost involved here as well.
>>>
>>> In my multiple trips to the authorised service provider and the stores, I met customers who even claimed that apple had replaced their four year old laptops as well for critical problems such as battery explodes where it hits their prestige of not looking into the quality of designing. And it was clear in my case, that they had framed a policy on singling me out, or my country out. They even said at a particular point, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India", which was such a loose remark, because they are supplying goods and services openly in India at large stores, and I really felt it was a racist remark.
>>>
>>> We happen to be a small firm that uses a number of apple products, and I guess they listened and provided service after a very persistent effort, but in case it had been someone who was not well aware of policies, he or she would have been taken for a ride. And that's a serious concern here. I guess this is the primary reason I shared my experience with the group.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Arjun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15-Dec-2011, at 7:30 AM, N.A. Nada wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>
>>>>> As someone who advises people and organizations on blogging and internet behavior, I often mention that more people log onto the web when they are faced with trouble while using a device or product, as opposed to the number of people who would spend time evangelizing something.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the complainers are the speedy. The protagonists hopefully are consistent and enduring, since they tend to be less vocal.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
>>>>>
>>>>> In between, I did purchase another notebook - the Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15" to ensure I could continue with my work while this ordeal of getting the notebook fixed was taking long.
>>>>
>>>> So you believe it is still a good product, even though you wrote and complained to 3 Mac __user__ groups. You weren't asking for help or advice, just detailing your issues.
>>>>
>>>> Of the two types of people you mention above, which does that put you in?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> But finally, this morning, Apple has delivered to me a replacement notebook in exchange for the one that I had to ship to them, and since this unit has been delivered to be in a brand-new sealed package, it feels great that somewhere inside the company, they do want to ensure customer satisfaction and are committed to it.
>>>>
>>>> So you finally did what they requested you to do... to allow them to re-evaluate it, before they replace it.
>>>>
>>>> Apparently, the local Authorized Service Providers were not up to the task of properly diagnosing it or repairing it.
>>>>
>>>> Apple does not do advanced replacements on computers, they want to evaluate the computer first, especially on 3 year old products.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In the end, I'd like to thank the readers of the forums for providing support and the kind words of advice I received from a lot many of you - some of the ones who sent me personal notes on how I should deal with them, and I greatly appreciate all the help I received. Also, I would like to thank those, who are on this group and probably work inside of Apple to know what's going on, and I must say all you guys must continue to provide service, and not deny service to a particular individual just because they come from a different country. It does leave a sour taste, especially when the concerns are genuine. Although, I am really glad the process was completed, I really wish it would have happened faster, which would have saved me the extra investment in another machine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Arjun
>>>>> CEO, blowtrumpet.com
>>>>
>>>> Interesting, after you started this thread, the New York Times published an article about the Indian government not allowing foreign retailers into India.
>>>>
>>>> "India Suspends Plan to Let in Foreign Retailers"
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/business/global/india-suspends-plan-to-let-in-foreign-retailers.html?_r=1
>>>>
>>>> Your government's policies and laws prevented Apple from having an official Apple presences in India and providing more convenient service. I have no idea how India's law differ from the US on warranty issues.
>>>>
>>>> You complained that the local Apple Authorized Retailers and Apple Authorized Service Providers would not replace the laptop. You would think that they would have some discretionary decision ability in that area. And if you did enough business with them they might have done it whether or not they might be reimbursed by Apple to keep you happy and your business. You contacted Apple in Ireland and they told you to send it to your regional Apple (Corp.) Repair Center in Singapore, since the local authorized vendor would not replace it. You claimed poverty in that you could not take it to, or ship it to or had a friend who do take it to Singapore, but you purchased a replacement before shipping it off to Singapore. You said nothing about wanting an advanced replacement, but basically that is what you wanted, as your actions have shown. Again, Apple does not do advanced replacements.
>>>>
>>>> You're the Founder and CEO of your company, so, sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me.
>>>>
>>>> I seriously doubt that your posting to this list or others, effected the decision to replace your laptop. Apple tends to take care of their customers. They take pride in their products, brand and reputation. Something maybe your current vendor could learn from.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I am an Apple enthusiast, and I have been on the phone to a senior Apple engineer a couple of time trying to fix a persistent problem. And I live in the US.
>>>>
>>>> I hope all your Apple products work well for you and you get great satisfaction from them.
>>>>
>>>> Brent
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Group FAQ:
>>> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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>
> ------------------------------------
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Messages in this topic (13)
3b.

Re: Good news, Apple Delivered!

Posted by: "Arjun Singhal" arjunsinghal@yahoo.com   arjunsinghal

Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:25 am (PST)



Hi Brent

Thanks for the words. I think we should close the discussion here and not argue further.

I still do not understand why I shouldn't be blinded by patriotism. I always believe that a country is made of people. When we talk about people at large, they have interests which need to be looked after. If individuals and businesses put their interest ahead of the country's greater interests, people suffer. I have seen only one school that has taught me that my interests, and the interests of my business are not as important as the interest of people at large. And I think I will carry that forward as a value for my work, even if it means that business is tough. This is the reason I do not like lobbyists and political influencers who bribe their way into political systems and bend the rules in a manner that it suits their businesses.

The present Indian government did not oppose Walmart. It was the people of India that raised a voice against Walmart. And to clarify, its not just Walmart that people raised a voice against. People in India say that if we need to develop infrastructure, we need more investment in developing further how we raise crops, how we further education in the country, how we improve health and medical facilities. And these should be done at large. Allowing foreign investors to expand in the retail market with 100% foreign investment will not help develop the country - it will just increase disparities between the fortunate and unfortunate. And that's the point the people put forward. In a few forums that I have been part of, we've already been discussing the pros and cons of the present Bharti-Walmart venture that is taking shape in India. I am not a policy maker here, but I do like to analyze things and be part of such discussions.

And as for CEOs being educated, there are many a successful entrepreneurs who have not even been to school, not just in India but across the globe. In fact, if you like to read, I am sharing the story of an entrepreneur, who'd been brought up to be the proctor of the local temple in his village. He always wished he knew how to read and write in English, so he could work as a school teacher, but because of his social constraints, he couldn't complete such education or pursue his dream profession.

During a natural calamity, everything in his village was lost, and he had been forced to migrate to a city where his education and language skills were useless because he was in an alien land. Not having anything to eat and drink, he started to a small shop of his own, and over years his enterprise grew to be a very successful business, and one fine day, he was sitting along side a journalist in a plane, and asked for help to fill the disembarkation card, since he didn't know how to read and write English. The journalist was shocked and talked to the gentleman saying, "Sir. You're an accomplished man today. You are flying business class, have an organization where people look up through their education to work with you. You recruit the best MBAs, lawyers, and professionals to work for you. And you do not know how to read and write English??? Just imagine how much more success would you have achieved, if you knew how to do that?

And the gentleman replied, "Had I known how to read and write English, I would not have been sitting with you in this aircraft today. I would have become a school teacher, and would be living in a small village, trying to teach children who are not interested in learning English."

Education in life is not what we learn in school, but what our mind absorbs from the environment around us.

Regards,
Arjun

On 17-Dec-2011, at 1:34 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:

> Arjun,
>
> I don't think the word you were looking for was offensive, but I understand what you mean, and no offense is taken by me.
>
> It is your country and you (all) have the right to run it as you see fit. If foreigners want to do business there or visit, they have to follow your rules. Same when they do business in or visit my country. But I think that your patriotism is blinding you to the restrictions your government has set for foreign business doing business in your country. In fact, it is preventing some from doing business there. If you read the article I mentioned before, I'm glad they are blocking Walmart. I think it harms small local US businesses and communities.
>
> But now you as an individual are telling Apple how to run their business. It is up to you to ask them.
>
> I have not suggested anything about your educational level or intelligence, and as founder and CEO of a company, I would expect a higher educational level. I have said I think you have confused a few issues.
>
> And I have not suggested to snitch on anyone. If they aren't doing a good job and helping you with Apple products, I think Apple would appreciate hearing from you. But you keep laying the blame on Apple Corp, when it appears that it should have been with the local Apple vendor. So you have verified that they are an Apple Authorized Premium Reseller, good.
>
> You were placing all the blame on Apple, but none on the local Apple Authorized Premium Reseller. If "India is a land where people believe in relationships." then why did they not go the extra mile to resolve this for you?
>
> The rest of your post is just an rant, off topic for the list and does not deserve a response. BTW, no I can not name any Indian Presidents, but what does that have to do with this subject?
>
> Brent
>
> On Dec 16, 2011, at 3:23 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
>
> > Mr. Nada
> >
> > If Apple could give me in writing that Indian policies do not allow them to ship in India, I would seriously have taken the matter up with the government as to what allows a company as small and as meagre in thought, that they can appoint "authorized vendors" and "authorized premium resellers" in India, and ask them not to provide service to "Indians". If my present mail sounds offensive, I am sorry to say, but the tone of your message is stirring a patriotic feeling inside me. We in India are free citizens of the world, as in any other democracy.
> >
> > I have been using computers since 25 years now, and I also owned Apple computers purchased abroad, brought to India after paying duties and taxes, during the eightees. Since there were other makes of computers available in India, we used those for education and work, and If you are hinting that I am uneducated and uninformed, then I have traveled across the globe, and also awarded full scholarship at American universities where I did not choose to study because I have been born an Indian and if nothing more, the soil of my country has fed me with food and provided me shelter, for which I am completely indebted. I am not one of those Indians who have fled their land to work as a mathematical genius and earn the accords of being an achiever. It was in 1988 that I started to submit my assignments using computers, at a time when there were enough people In India who hadn't even seen a computer. In 1997, I won a national prize in robotics, and computers remained a hobby for me, while I pursued interests in business, economics and worked professional in management consulting.
> >
> > I do not know much about your background, but I have learnt one thing among many others in life - do not snitch on anyone when its not their fault. The service provider is an Apple Authorized Premium Reseller, who is listed on the Apple website. Their employees have been trained under Apple Certification Programs, and they are doing business turnover of over 10 million dollars for Apple alone every month. They are vendors for other companies in India as well, and that's how a lot of companies do business in India - by building on partnerships. When it comes to service, there are enough customers who are not fools to be providing this vendor with that quantum of business, if they would've had a doubt on the quality they would be receiving.
> >
> > More so, India is a land where people believe in relationships. They work on their relationships. It is not rare that you step into any store at random, and find out that the cousin of one of the people who works there is married to a cousin of yours. And people respect these relationships to the core, where marriage happens once in a lifetime. In a land which has perhaps the highest population growth rate, highest industrial growth rate and perhaps the second or third largest population in the world. And the reason why many companies choose to have such partners is because people have relationships, and these relationships are promissory notes into commercial success. Someone I know has a Honda dealership. And believe it or not, there is not a single person we know who would not have atleast one Honda car in their garage, or would think about buying a car without considering Honda. That relationship thing is supreme here. Facebook has happened today in America, but social networks of India are unbeatable in terms of how business is done here.
> >
> > If you are talking about a country that has restrictive policies, tell me the name of one Indian president of America. The land which speaks about openness has never had a non-American born president. But India is one country in the world, where we are 80% Hindu, more muslims live here in peace than the entire populations of many Islamic countries of the world. The leader of our single largest political party is an Italian and our prime minister is a Sikh who belongs from a minority community. And we have transparent policies filtering down to the grassroot, with Right To Information (RTI) being given as a fundamental right to every citizen of the country, where he or she can question any authority or law for the very basis, and challenge it in the interest of the community and people at large - not only people in India but worldwide.
> >
> > As Indians, we are a country that has a heritage of richess, and we were known by the name of Hindustan more than 10,000 years ago, and our name has live on as Hindustan despite many a hundred rulers who tried to conquer the land failed in their attempts. Even the name India originates from the word Indus, the river that flows at the north of India, and is known to be the oldest civilization and the most developed civilization in history of mankind.
> >
> > Although, you might find me being very assertive in my language, I am again not hinting that I have anything personal with any one particular person, and I would've readily accepted if the policies were being fair, but I was literally stunned when someone at Customer Relations used "India" and "Indians" in a racist tone, which is when I shared with the group. I had the privilege to work with a very senior rocket scientist, who has shared office in space research with our former president in atomic and nuclear research, and he taught me during my MBA, that society at large is ethical. And if you encounter a small group of people who are being wrong and unjust, then refer it to larger society, and that was my interest in joining the group, and not to single out one person in customer relations or apple vendors in India, or any of the readers of this forum.
> >
> > I believe we are part of a community in every facet of our lives, be it apple users or not, and whatever we do in our life, must be done in a manner that it serves people.
> >
> > I'll end this note with a thought - We feel that we will pass on nature and its gifts to our children, hence we shouldn't pollute the earth. In reality, we have borrowed their future to live our present. If we do not use it wisely and make our payments on borrowings on time, nature will itself consume us. We cannot steal the future from our children.
> >
> > Again, I apologize for any personal remarks or for hurting anyone in particular within this group. I did not mean to make anything personal when I shared my experience with the group. My only motive was to make public all facts in a transparent manner, and if any misunderstandings are happening, I am sorry for my part in sharing.
> >
> > And if any company today is looking at India as a market, it is because India is a land of promise. I do not want to speak more here, but if you have an interest, please do feel to read a few thoughts of mine about India at www.speakleadership.com, which stirred in my mind when I was working with one of the renowned political critics India has. India is the home of knowledge in the world. And it is not far from today that the world will witness the rise of India, not as a country that rose by competing but as a country that won through collaboration.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Arjun
> >
> > On 16-Dec-2011, at 2:06 PM, N.A. Nada wrote:
> >
> >> Arjun,
> >>
> >> I'm just communicating my view on your position.
> >>
> >> 1. I'm not arguing that you had a problem that others have had. And I am glad you finally got a replacement.
> >>
> >> I'm arguing that you are blaming everything on Apple. You are still confusing the local Apple authorized vendors with Apple.
> >>
> >> The Apple authorized vendor you are using is giving you lousy service. Are you sure they are authorized? What is the name of this vendor so others can avoid them, also?
> >>
> >> And you were not bothering to mention that your country's government has imposed limits on how Apple does business in your country. Nothing wrong with that, it is your country. I'm not saying that the limits are better or worse, just that they are different and restrictive. But it is like saying that the only winning hands in the game has to include an Ace, but only the dealer can have an Ace. At that point I don't sit out the hand, I walk away from the table. It looks like Apple was not offered a chair at the table, or they chose to walk away.
> >>
> >> 2. You have a choice, if you don't like Apple's business plan on how they control their hardware and software, get something else. Millions of other people use other computers and OSes. You have a choice, but apparently you think Apple's product is better. Life is tough, get over it. Besides, it is their business plan that has made the product so good.
> >>
> >> 3. Yeah, you took it in to what you believe to be is an Apple authorized vendor, not Apple. Have you checked with Apple to verify they are authorized or to complain about them? You keep confusing Apple and the vendors. Apple is either restricted by local regulations from having an official presence in India, or they chose not to. How come you won't address these regulations on how foreign companies do business in your country?
> >>
> >> You even say that Apple told you that they can not provide you service in India. See issue #1. Lousy logistics, again you seem to be confusing the authorized vendor with Apple.
> >>
> >> You had the same unit in 17 times, not to Apple, but to a vendor, and you are just now complaining? With your persistence on this thread, I'm surprised you didn't demand a replacement laptop after about 4 or 5 trips. Sounds like you have a valid issue with the authorized vendor you chose, since they could not resolve it in 17 trips. Again, what is the vendor's name?
> >>
> >> But Apple did help you when you complied with their request to send it to an official Apple repair center, not to a third party vendor. Maybe you should be posting that to get satisfaction, to send it to the regional official Apple repair center in Singapore, rather than to the vendor you chose, or ones in India.
> >>
> >> How is the postal service or package delivery services in India? Are they secure? Could you ship it to the vendor for service rather than taking it there? I still think you need to find another vendor that will give you better service.
> >>
> >> I don't know whether it was an Apple vendor or Apple, again two different things, who said, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India.", nor the origination of the shipment. But apparently Apple can ship products back from Singapore after they repair or replace it. There are customs restrictions about shipping certain electronics internationally, so the statement could be true and not be racist. Or again, it could be Indian regulations on imports. I don't know.
> >>
> >> We have a similar situation in the state of Florida. Local regulations do not allow extended warranties to be sold or honored in the state, so AppleCare warranties can not be purchased there. So no extended warranty service is available to Apple owners there. You don't hear much about it, because most people realize the problem is not with Apple or its authorized vendors, but with the local regulations.
> >>
> >> Brent
> >>
> >> On Dec 14, 2011, at 9:27 PM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
> >>
> >>> Dear Mr. Nada
> >>>
> >>> Your note is a little disturbing but I will put down three points to explain myself.
> >>>
> >>> 1. I believe if there is some truth in a matter, it must be communicated, not over-rated. I communicated my issues to the group to highlight good and bad practices.
> >>>
> >>> 2. I would count myself in the protagonist category, and also the part that OS X is addictive. If you are running OS X and iOS, you're pretty much cornered - that's the way Apple builds its products. You really don't have much choice to go anywhere else.
> >>>
> >>> 3. And I did take the unit in. They might be having their policies, but at what cost to the consumer. I was running around without any hope for a long time since May this year. The closest Apple service provider was a few hundred kilometers away from where I have my office. When Apple started to say that they couldn't provide me service in India, and I would have to ship the unit to them in Singapore, I actually felt that they are lousy in their logistics, and that they are trying piggyback on my infrastructure and cost. I took the unit about 11 times for just diagnosis. The unit was also repaired six times. That means 17 times the unit was deposited with Apple Care, and for me, that's 34 trips. In essence, it's actually more than the cost of two Macbook Pros. But the customer often doesn't realize that things won't be right, and you continue to incur such costs over a period of time. The Authorized Service Providers were caught up in political issues it seems because they would acknowledge in my presence the screen flicker, but communicate to Apple that the problem couldn't be replicated. For days they would keep my machine and the hardware tests would pass. This was very bugging, because I even captured it on camera and sent the flics to customer relations. Customer relations acknowledged there was a problem, but insisted on physical verification which the authorised service provider was not communicating properly. It landed me in a soup, and required physical verification three times, meaning six trips to and fro from the service provider. And if someone were to estimate the implied loss of work, because every time I had to spend time extracting data and putting it back, because they would be very confident after fixing it with replaced components that would've solved the problem, there was a cost involved here as well.
> >>>
> >>> In my multiple trips to the authorised service provider and the stores, I met customers who even claimed that apple had replaced their four year old laptops as well for critical problems such as battery explodes where it hits their prestige of not looking into the quality of designing. And it was clear in my case, that they had framed a policy on singling me out, or my country out. They even said at a particular point, "Indian policies do not allow us to ship products in India", which was such a loose remark, because they are supplying goods and services openly in India at large stores, and I really felt it was a racist remark.
> >>>
> >>> We happen to be a small firm that uses a number of apple products, and I guess they listened and provided service after a very persistent effort, but in case it had been someone who was not well aware of policies, he or she would have been taken for a ride. And that's a serious concern here. I guess this is the primary reason I shared my experience with the group.
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Arjun
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 15-Dec-2011, at 7:30 AM, N.A. Nada wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 12:02 AM, Arjun Singhal wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi All
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As someone who advises people and organizations on blogging and internet behavior, I often mention that more people log onto the web when they are faced with trouble while using a device or product, as opposed to the number of people who would spend time evangelizing something.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, the complainers are the speedy. The protagonists hopefully are consistent and enduring, since they tend to be less vocal.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wrote a few notes to these groups mentioning about my bad experience with the flickering screen of the MacBook Pro that was under Apple Care Protection. I had been battling with Apple and their service providers in India to get the unit repaired, and almost every part in the machine had been replaced by them, but the screen flicker was not going. When I asked them for a replacement, Apple wanted to tell me that they didn't replace products, and a series of not-so-nice conversations happened, which just gave me a hard time in dealing with them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In between, I did purchase another notebook - the Late 2011 Macbook Pro 15" to ensure I could continue with my work while this ordeal of getting the notebook fixed was taking long.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you believe it is still a good product, even though you wrote and complained to 3 Mac __user__ groups. You weren't asking for help or advice, just detailing your issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of the two types of people you mention above, which does that put you in?
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But finally, this morning, Apple has delivered to me a replacement notebook in exchange for the one that I had to ship to them, and since this unit has been delivered to be in a brand-new sealed package, it feels great that somewhere inside the company, they do want to ensure customer satisfaction and are committed to it.
> >>>>
> >>>> So you finally did what they requested you to do... to allow them to re-evaluate it, before they replace it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apparently, the local Authorized Service Providers were not up to the task of properly diagnosing it or repairing it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Apple does not do advanced replacements on computers, they want to evaluate the computer first, especially on 3 year old products.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the end, I'd like to thank the readers of the forums for providing support and the kind words of advice I received from a lot many of you - some of the ones who sent me personal notes on how I should deal with them, and I greatly appreciate all the help I received. Also, I would like to thank those, who are on this group and probably work inside of Apple to know what's going on, and I must say all you guys must continue to provide service, and not deny service to a particular individual just because they come from a different country. It does leave a sour taste, especially when the concerns are genuine. Although, I am really glad the process was completed, I really wish it would have happened faster, which would have saved me the extra investment in another machine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>> Arjun
> >>>>> CEO, blowtrumpet.com
> >>>>
> >>>> Interesting, after you started this thread, the New York Times published an article about the Indian government not allowing foreign retailers into India.
> >>>>
> >>>> "India Suspends Plan to Let in Foreign Retailers"
> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/08/business/global/india-suspends-plan-to-let-in-foreign-retailers.html?_r=1
> >>>>
> >>>> Your government's policies and laws prevented Apple from having an official Apple presences in India and providing more convenient service. I have no idea how India's law differ from the US on warranty issues.
> >>>>
> >>>> You complained that the local Apple Authorized Retailers and Apple Authorized Service Providers would not replace the laptop. You would think that they would have some discretionary decision ability in that area. And if you did enough business with them they might have done it whether or not they might be reimbursed by Apple to keep you happy and your business. You contacted Apple in Ireland and they told you to send it to your regional Apple (Corp.) Repair Center in Singapore, since the local authorized vendor would not replace it. You claimed poverty in that you could not take it to, or ship it to or had a friend who do take it to Singapore, but you purchased a replacement before shipping it off to Singapore. You said nothing about wanting an advanced replacement, but basically that is what you wanted, as your actions have shown. Again, Apple does not do advanced replacements.
> >>>>
> >>>> You're the Founder and CEO of your company, so, sorry, but you will get no sympathy from me.
> >>>>
> >>>> I seriously doubt that your posting to this list or others, effected the decision to replace your laptop. Apple tends to take care of their customers. They take pride in their products, brand and reputation. Something maybe your current vendor could learn from.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, I am an Apple enthusiast, and I have been on the phone to a senior Apple engineer a couple of time trying to fix a persistent problem. And I live in the US.
> >>>>
> >>>> I hope all your Apple products work well for you and you get great satisfaction from them.
> >>>>
> >>>> Brent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Group FAQ:
> >>> <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> > ------------------------------------
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> > Group FAQ:
> > <http://www.macsupportcentral.com/policies/>
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> > Yahoo! Groups Links
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